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 Post subject: what's going on here?
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:15 am 
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Why do shamans see different things? For example, I saw a white round vase, another saw a square one as the same object. Why?

I argued with my former teacher about how when she said to be safe from spirits who were attacking me, she said "just be love" and all she would to was help me to decide to do that. I sensed that they were going to make me detached from my own well being enough that I would no longer seek protection, and that her guides were actually the very ones attacking me and wanted me to no longer care that I was being attacked. No resistance.

The same thing is happening now, with yet another quite accomplished shaman. The spirits have told him that my intuition is off and needs further "opening", when I can clearly see in him the energies they use to input his intuition and communicate false information from another realm to him. He has wild stories about aliens and stuff which my intuition says are not true. Same with the last shaman.

I don't get it.


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 Post subject: Re: what's going on here?
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:05 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:35 pm
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Location: Finland
That is exactly how things are.

Every single "teacher" I have met teach just their own viewpoint. Different viewpoints are never complete truths as is not mine. If those viewpoints resonate with our own being, you may think of it as true or if not as false.

Usually it is easier to work with those, who's "resonance", thought patterns or whatever is near similar to yours. When even most simple meanings of things - is an object a vase or square - cannot be agreed, whole attempt of communication appears just a waste of time.

Better if you use your own reasoning. You repeatedly face same situation. What you have learned? What belief you hold so tight, you need to face same lesson again? Where you put your own faith? Some questions are those, only you can aswer.


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 Post subject: Re: what's going on here?
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:18 am 
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Location: NW UK
Sometimes when we 'look' at a situation or issue, two people will see it slightly differently. I remember being asked by my mentor to take a look at a client and tell her what I found. I saw 'my' Spirits shaking their heads and not willing to do anything, I saw odd colours etc. However, when she looked at her client, she saw her Spirits pointing out different things, then going to sit on a distant branch. The things she saw were different to my vision but the message was the same. Massive organ failure from years of abuse and both our Spirits said that nothing could be done. Same message, different visual clues which we both understood. Like different words in different languages which both mean the same thing.

With regard to your intuition and other teachers, Do you feel that Shamanism is about balance and proof? Finding the balance in all aspects of life and using what works = proof? If what these people say works then it may be something you need to learn from. If your gut instinct screams that this is wrong and hokey then you can politely walk away. It's your free will.

None of us are perfect though, sometimes we are faced with things which we turn away from, only to find later that it wasn't our gut instinct but fear which prevented us from doing something. We never make the right choices 100% of the time, so don't worry about making mistakes, just try to check yourself and do what you can from your own best intentions. It's all any of us can do.

One more thing, do your teachers give you sound, proveable information or hypothetical stuff? For example, my mentor was verbally attacked for using what looked like a local petroglyph in one of their art works and some 1st Nation people at a craft fair were not happy. However, she could show them how this exact same petroglph was found not only in North America but over the Eurasian continent as well, what it meant to her culture and others, how that fit in with what was known of it in Canada and the deeper underlying history and reasons for using it. This wider learning and understanding was the proof and authenticity she needed to have to use this image with integrity. They parted as friends and it is that sort of wisdom which comes from decades of study and living the life which shines through.


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 Post subject: Re: what's going on here?
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:24 am 
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Jusma wrote:
Better if you use your own reasoning. You repeatedly face same situation. What you have learned? What belief you hold so tight, you need to face same lesson again? Where you put your own faith? Some questions are those, only you can aswer.


It's not a lesson I need to learn, other than how to become strong enough not to be attacked. But I never know now whether spirit friends coming to help me are really there to help, or are part of the other side.

Their spirits were basically lying to them. Also, they seemed to be getting their intuition fed to them from the spirits, rather than use their own. It was like mind control to me because those Aliens were never here, ect.

Every single shaman I meet is like this. I'm beginning to think some group of spirits are keeping a glass ceiling over all of shamanhood.


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 Post subject: Re: what's going on here?
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:53 am 
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Forest Child wrote:
If your gut instinct screams that this is wrong and hokey then you can politely walk away. It's your free will.


Part of what brings all this about is that I can see that their intuition is being fed to them from somewhere in a strange way, and it brings about all these mythical answers about aliens and Lemuria an past lives and all this stuff... may want to ask your guides if you are to know thins stuff.

But my intuition, which mainly links to the conscious energy of the physical world, feels a bit like reading a science textbook. It says Lemuria, being an idea, is just an energy in spirit world, along with all the characters of world religions and public persona of celebrities. It says past lives are almost just a metaphorical way your soul makes itself known to you. Like a past life as a bear just means you have a bear in you. The story of the lifetime gets made up. But that is all knowledge I am being heavily attacked by spirits for having.

Mostly, it is that there are spirits who do high-vibrational things, but are really not in your best interest. They pulled out my third eye. It was covered in ego, sure, but they got out the whole thing because they wanted me to stop seeing the man behind the curtain. They say they are here to help us shamans when really they are here for control. They block other shamans from being able to see the man behind the curtain by feeding them their intuition from elsewhere, like with the above two shamans. And boy are they excited to get intuition. I have yet to meet someone who isn't like that. Who recognizes, like me, that anything can exist in spirit if you're willing to accept it, but certain things just did not happen here.

I sound paranoid. :/

I'm at a loss. I can't find the help I need, the spirits I trust are getting taken away, and I'm getting way derailed from my life path and can't take care of myself. I'm deep in it.


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 Post subject: Re: what's going on here?
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:00 pm 
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Location: Finland
Yes, that is how things are.
Some person said about past lives, that there lived maybe 5 million Kleopatras at time and 10 million Napoleons if calculated all who was seen such image during regressions. When people do this past lifetime things, it happens they imagine things that fascinates their imagination.

I am not surprised at all, if you sense, that known shamans do not feel right and information they get may become from twisted source. That is normal and common. For my liking it is absolutely healthy to have some critisism in mind and trusting own intuition.

Do you really need their help, spiritual attacks? AT the time it was for me a lesson just to learn to avoid all the situations I felt harassing myself. It is not only shamans, who can spiritually attack. Thoughs are energy and basicly we are all the time surrounded negative and disturbing energies until learned to live with. It cannot be fleed from. When a person is not filled with holes and leeking all his power out, it is actually quite easy to ignore all attempts of manipulation and control. When you just ignore them, powerstruggles (attempts to manipulate, control, flatter) do not get any hold or contact with you, things are easy.


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 Post subject: Re: what's going on here?
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:26 am
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Location: Bavaria, Germany
You can only learn to defend yourself in situations where you have to defend yourself.

Yours,

Apu Kuntur


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 Post subject: Re: what's going on here?
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:44 am 
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Apu Kuntur wrote:
You can only learn to defend yourself in situations where you have to defend yourself.


They killed my power animal. Tore her apart, painfully. The dozens if not hundreds of others I have around me were able to do nothing to hep her. Some have her in a "cocoon of healing" according to the one shaman, but I can tell that that really means they have her captive and are transforming her into a completely different soul, who does not have the qualities to assist my intuition.

After they made me fall and hit my head (I spent time in the hospital) my true intuition is essentially gone. I can't even feel the crystals I work with anymore. I DO NOT trust anything that says it will help me with my intuition now. That as always been a way of saying they want to make me see what those other people see. The other shaman's spirits even said they all want me to be seeing the lies he sees.

And I firmly believe that every shaman on earth is being held down by spirits who they call guides.

I was falling asleep one day to realize my energies were melting and had half a second to figure out how to will them to stop. I got lucky that time.

Some high-vibrational truths: Challenges only make you stronger if you overcome them. These beings know this. Those who do not overcome simply don't. If that happens to be everyone, so be it.


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 Post subject: Re: what's going on here?
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:56 am 
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Quote:
And I firmly believe that every shaman on earth is being held down by spirits who they call guides.


Insulting all the Spirits and shamans on Earth is surely the best way of managing your affairs here.

So you build your opinion on one shamans actions - how far sighted this is I do not have to point out.

I'm out here. This discussion is senseless.


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 Post subject: Re: what's going on here?
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:32 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:37 pm
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resonantD wrote:
They killed my power animal. Tore her apart, painfully. The dozens if not hundreds of others I have around me were able to do nothing to hep her. Some have her in a "cocoon of healing" according to the one shaman, but I can tell that that really means they have her captive and are transforming her into a completely different soul, who does not have the qualities to assist my intuition.
.
.
.
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And I firmly believe that every shaman on earth is being held down by spirits who they call guides.

I too want to mention that the description of your problems with your spirit guides is a bit insulting. However I would like to make three comments in case anyone else has or will have a similar problem.

First of all I don't think a spirit can actually be killed. They may be injured (I have had to do this myself) but that is a far cry from killing it. Actually I'd wager that your missing spirit guide is still there, but won't appear to you until it is healed. (I'll leave open the question if you could be able to help the healing process. Energy methods are not in my realm of expertise.)

Second from my own experience I have had two occasions where my spirit guides and Higher Self have both refused to speak to me. They have not been anything less than polite in their refusals at least. In each case there was some kind of a lesson that I needed to learn on my own in order make further progress Shamanically. Perhaps you are undergoing a similar "test."

Third I have never had a situation where my spirit guides and Higher Self have put any sort of limitations on me and I have never heard of such a thing happening. I think it likely that you are putting the limitations on yourself and it's being reflected by your spirit guides.

I would recommend going to your spirit guides and asking them what the trouble is. See if they will talk to you about some specific topics. Be persistent about it, but not to the point of rudeness of course. If you can uncover which topics they will not talk about you might get an idea of what exactly the problem is.

BB
Phoenix Dragon-Oak


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 Post subject: Re: what's going on here?
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:39 pm
Posts: 66
I will confirm that you are under a glass ceiling.I will confirm that you have been derailed.I will confirm that many follow spirits who lie to them.I will confirm that it is not just you who have been deceived.I dare say,that there has been a catastrophic failure on a massive scale.Whole races have been places under the "glass ceiling",or delegated to the lower realms.The time of the white race is over! This is the cost of materialism.The powers have moved to the humble people, who have no status in society,no self importance and hardly any belongings.It is done!


P.S.I am sorry to hear that you suffer.Perhaps you could find another power animal?If you cannot restore your previous abilities,you may have to use another vocation.Being a shaman is not the only way of being.Take good care of your head and get plenty of rest.


Last edited by oracledreamhealer on Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: OracleDreamHealer
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:36 am 
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This is going to be off-topic, but the given thread seems to be complete so I'll say this here.

I'd like to make a point about your (OracleDreamHealer) post in this thread. I can't image that someone who has spent time with with Mr. Castaneda, much less one claiming to be his successor, would ever make the comment "The time of the white race is over!" I sincerely doubt that Mr. Castaneda would limit his worldview to a mere description of race.

Your comment is racist and uneducated. I hope I speak for the majority of members here by saying "Please don't do this again."

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Phoenix Dragon-Oak


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 Post subject: Re: what's going on here?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:39 pm
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You quote the art of war as your source.My source is the art of peace.Obviously,I have no wish to offend an entire race.So,what I have said,does not benefit me in any way;and you know the saying:if you don't like the message,shoot the messenger.To argue that the western world has not fallen into materialism,would be to deny reality.This is not to say that the rest of the world does not aspire to become just like the western world.History is full of records of super powers rising and falling.It is nothing new.It is not a racist comment to say that the time of the white race is over.I myself am white,but I was trained by the nagual in the ways of the toltecs.Western culture does not value dreams and dreamers.A civilization that no longer dreams is a dying civilization.Have no illusions about it.I am not defending my opinions.I have no opinions.I observe and I see. Mr.Castaneda is with me on a regular basis,as a spirit.He is proud to call me his successor.I hope for your sake,that you have not lost your dreams. The Oracle.
P.S.I did not "spend time" with Castaneda.I worked with him for 18 years,Sir.Too bad you don't have respect for me.


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 Post subject: Re: what's going on here?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:47 am 
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"You quote the art of war as your source.My source is the art of peace."
As a source yes. But not my only source. My path often takes me into battles with some level of dark spirits. So yes, I have studied the "Art of War" to find some common principles that might help me in my role as a protector. Most of it is archaic now...Much of it is devoted to telling me how many chariots to use when the enemy is on rocky terrain. But I am a protector/guardian for those who don't even know they are in danger. So I have learned to attack or defend in any way that I can.

I suspect we both work toward similar ends. I am not trying to start a flame war here. I simply wanted to point out that your comment could have been chosen more carefully and that there was no reason to even make it. Your overall message is good without taking a pot-shot at a section of the human race. So why put it in there in the first place?

"It is not a racist comment to say that the time of the white race is over."

I strongly disagree. For example if I made a similar comment about Afro-Americans the NAACP would be all over me for being a racist. I see no difference here.

It seems that you are really trying to make a comment about the materialistic "religion" found in many of the Western nations. Frankly I agree with you. So next time around simply say that.


"Too bad you don't have respect for me."


I would have more respect for you if you hadn't included such an inflammatory and completely unnecessary comment in your post. I will assume at this point that your comment was not deliberately racist. And I do value those who speak their mind and act upon their principles. Say what you have to say, just please pick how you make your comments a bit more carefully next time.

BB
Phoenix Dragon-Oak


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 Post subject: Re: what's going on here?
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:39 pm
Posts: 66
I say what I say the way I want to say it.If I say that Western civilization has generally lost the connection to Spirit,then that is how I see it and I can put forth the message without masking it with nice vocabulary.I don't care if people would call me racist.Usually,people just call me a whore,so it would be a welcome addition. The time of the Native American civilization to rise again,has come.The western world has reached a point of spiritual bankruptcy.Power must go to the care takers of The Earth or else there will be no earth left to defend.Am I clear enough?
As to my place and value in the world of white people,I will tell you what it is:no place,no value.This is not only a personal statement.It is a reflection of the values of society.As far as the white race is concerned,that which I am does not even exist.I have been silenced long enough!If you and I work towards the same goal,then perhaps you would like to collaborate with me? I surely need a warrior who would be able to defend me.My remaining days on Earth are short,and I still have much work to do.
The Oracle.[oracledreamhealer.com].


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