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 Post subject: Re: . . . the DARK side . . .
 Post Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 11:33 pm 
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What I have done this kind of work, it is always been alone. Spirit helpers will not follow you, but you may find out that those who devour may become your friends. Even when they have those rotten and scary faces.


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 Post subject: Re: . . . the DARK side . . .
 Post Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 3:30 am 
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Location: NW UK
SundayForever wrote:
What I have done this kind of work, it is always been alone. Spirithelpers will not follow you, but you may find out that those who devour may become your friends. Even when thay have those rotten and scary faces.


Yes, this is the buddhist way of working isn't it? I have Tsultrim Alione's book 'Feeding your Demons' which is essentially about the same subject.

After working through these recent issues, it is definitely about walking this path alone and relying on your own wits rather than expecting help. Most hero myths have these same times where the hero seems to go through a time of feeling abandoned and only their own actions form the movement forward.

Working through the dark stuff has been a deep learning experience which, although I did not wish to go through at the time, has proved invaluable now that I can see it from a new perspective at the other end.


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 Post subject: Re: . . . the DARK side . . .
 Post Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:23 am
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Location: UK
Hi Forest Child!

I am so sorry to hear of your suffering. Families are often so important to our sense of emotional and spiritual stability and family issues can be so incredibly and deeply disturbing to our psyche. Issues in our current family often throw us back to earlier experiences in our birth/growing-up family. I offer a few thoughts and experiences in case they might be of any help...

Firstly this is a very common dream scenario and also appears sometimes in people's journeys and when doing soul retrieval. I suspect that somewhere in your everyday life you are having the experience of being trapped or fristrated and your psyche is mirroring this truth to you. The absence of light suggests that at present you lack insight into what is really going on. The shadowy person who has trapped you is probably your shadow-self. Contrary to popular opinion a dream-life shadow-self is not always "dark" in the sense of being a negative aspect of oneself, but is just an aspect of yourself that you currently lack conscious awareness of.

The dream signifies that there is a "downstream" answer to the trap in your everyday [family?] life but you will remain trapped until the light of a new awareness of truth dawns on you.

Your key task is to unravel what is blocking and blinding you from making progress in your everyday world problem.

These blocks to healing/progress usually have an emotional and spiritual component. The clues you have been given are the emotional blcok of fear and the "spiritual issue" block of "betrayal".

If this was me my curiosity would lead me to immediately do an "emotional clearing", then dowse as to whether the betrayal was self-betrayal, betrayal by someone else or both things simultaneously [which is not unusual!]. Without de-stressing/emotional clearing, Dowsing [like other aspects of intuition] is not reliable.

Fear is obviously a key emotional block at this initial stage of your journey. The river may symbolise that a flow of emotion is needed in order for you to "escape" your entrapment. Have you been able to do all the necessary crying in relation to these "rough times" you mention?


>>> Fear plays a big part in some of what I need to examine>>>

Fear so often blocks our access to what is there to be confronted or healed. It can be helpful to remember that...

** fear is energy - feeling and breathing into it [preferably with the "water" breath] and expressing it allows us to harness this energy, as well as to move through it to the "forbidden area" that lies beyond.

** Big steps forward in our healing and development often lie in these fear-protected places.

** intense fear is often about

** Fear constricts our breathing and drive us "up into our head-talk and imaginings", thus disconnecting us from the truth underlying the fear and often actually intensifying the fear. Use the "water breath" [reflective breathing] to move back into the body - Where is the fear actually located? What sensations/images lie at that location? As you breathe with acceptance into the fear watch out for the underlying mind-talk to emerge from your sub-conscious and quickly write it down, no matter how irrational it seems [it may be about the past not the present].

Have you tried re-entering the dream cavern as a shamanic journey and asking for help? If this is blocked you need to return to the breath/body work of emotional/mental clearing.

A technique I have occasionally used for people who are very stuck in this kind of situation is PSYCHODRAMA:
http://www.sunflower-health.com/resources/burnout.htm
get a few people to help you by piling cushions/mattresses etc over you and simulate the cavern-entrapment. Breathe and feel into this situation and new insights can flow. PSYCHODRAMA helps to make the dream crisis more physical and real, helping us to get beyond the distrations of mental analysis or psychic dissociation.

One final thought, Forest Child - purely wild guesswork! - are you trying to avoid confronting a real-world [relationship?] external issue/truth by assuming that this is purely an inner personal problem of your own?

Good luck, love and many blessings to you in finding your way forward.


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 Post subject: Re: . . . the DARK side . . .
 Post Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 4:22 pm 
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Thanks BM, this issue was 6 months ago and has evolved past being a problem any more it has been both worked through and learned from.

Sharing our ways of dealing with shadow work is interesting in itself.


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 Post subject: Re: . . . the DARK side . . .
 Post Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:55 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:35 pm
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Location: Finland
Forest Child wrote:
SundayForever wrote:
What I have done this kind of work, it is always been alone. Spirithelpers will not follow you, but you may find out that those who devour may become your friends. Even when thay have those rotten and scary faces.


Yes, this is the buddhist way of working isn't it? I have Tsultrim Alione's book 'Feeding your Demons' which is essentially about the same subject.

Working through the dark stuff has been a deep learning experience which, although I did not wish to go through at the time, has proved invaluable now that I can see it from a new perspective at the other end.


I do not know about buddhists, shamanist or anything else. There was just own experience - nothing else. Also I did not find any ceremonies or techniques any value or place during process.
When you said: "Working through the dark stuff has been a deep learning experience."
It was all actually a learning process to me also. It was not about cleansing or purifying and that way most "healing" ceremonies may prove useless, unless those ease or speed up learning. During the process there is no options, either you walk through or you stay where you are and suffer. That was only choise to make.

Maybe one difference, when talked here about dark side is, if person is actually emerged inside (to work out something) the dark or just hanging around there for a reason or other, with option to move in and out by own will.

Hearing about the process itself is interesting about experiences and learnings. I got one book into my hands, where was good sentence about options. "When you have none (options, choices), you are in a state of love." (filling your destiny or soul's mission)

And of that I am quite certain, when thinking how valuable that *dark* time is, it must be work of love. There is only one way to walk. And "one" is the love itself. (which contain huge range of different emotion)


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 Post subject: Re: . . . the DARK side . . .
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:23 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:25 pm
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What about yourself can you not love and embrace?

Love an embrace it.

That simple.


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 Post subject: Re: . . . the DARK side . . .
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:15 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:23 am
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Location: UK
If only SELF-LOVE was that simple!

The truth is that there will always by many occasions in life when we "let ourselves down" - fail to support ourself or the things that we value, stay silent when we should speak out, hurt the people who love us, etc.

As long as these memories and feelings of self-resentment, or even self-destructive self-hated, lie buried in our subconscious - their dis-ease troubling us from time to time via our dreams and visions - we will struggle to really love ourself in a healthy way (non-neurotic, not based on neurotic pride).

Revisiting these troubled memories/feelings/images to find understanding and forgiveness for ourself is essential to finding real "peace of mind" - and self-love. Sometimes our inner-critic or troubled conscience (higher-self) is so relentless about a past incident or relationship that we have to find a non-judgmental other person who can model for us the principle of unconditional love. Sometimes we need to make amends for our past wrong-doing before self-love and divine connection can fully open up for us.

See also: Transform Low Self-Esteem, Let go of Neurotic Pride


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 Post subject: Re: . . . the DARK side . . .
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:16 pm
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Questioning our darker aspects; those elements of our personality which sit simmering on the back burner and only tend to show themselves when we are under extreme pressure, is a necessary part of spiritual self development. Its only worth doing if we take action when we find something which no longer serves us or doesn't fit our current way of living. Acknowledging it is one thing, taking steps to work through it and become more healthy as a result is quite another.

Simply embracing love for ourselves is a good start but usually there is more to be done, hard work and difficult decisions (like quitting smoking or actually doing some charity work instead of just talking about it).

As far as positive self esteem goes, it can also be a mask. I do have to wonder if brothermichael can write any post here without referencing his own site/business?


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 Post subject: Re: . . . the DARK side . . .
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:08 am 
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Forest Child wrote:
I do have to wonder if brothermichael can write any post here without referencing his own site/business?


Ouch! Forest Child! - what is the reason for this personal attack? Am I the only person ever to include a link to their own website in a posting?

Do I always include a link to my own website? Certainly not. Do I mention other people's websites - yes.

What is this really about Forest Child?? ..and why choose a public forum to attack my work rather than contact me directly, since we are known to each other?

I and my posting readers are often busy people so I like to keep my postings brief and link to more extensive discussion - and resources - no one has to follow them who is not interested. No-one is forced to read my website articles and resource lists.

I am shocked and saddened by your comment and would not wish to pursue further such a personal attack in a public forum.


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 Post subject: Re: . . . the DARK side . . .
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:23 pm 
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Location: NW UK
brothermichael wrote:
Forest Child wrote:
I do have to wonder if brothermichael can write any post here without referencing his own site/business?


Ouch! Forest Child! - what is the reason for this personal attack? Am I the only person ever to include a link to their own website in a posting?

Do I always include a link to my own website? Certainly not. Do I mention other people's websites - yes.

What is this really about Forest Child?? ..and why choose a public forum to attack my work rather than contact me directly, since we are known to each other?

I and my posting readers are often busy people so I like to keep my postings brief and link to more extensive discussion - and resources - no one has to follow them who is not interested. No-one is forced to read my website articles and resource lists.

I am shocked and saddened by your comment and would not wish to pursue further such a personal attack in a public forum.


My apologies if my comment/reference was rude. Whether or not I have met someone in person isn't an issue but the vast majority of your posts do reference your own website. If it is distasteful to continue this in public, I will leave you to work out why such constant advertising is problematic in reference to what you wrote in your previous post.


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 Post subject: Re: . . . the DARK side . . .
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:21 am 
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Forest Child wrote:
I will leave you to work out why such constant advertising is problematic in reference to what you wrote in your previous post


I surrender to your hostility my love of contributing to, and being part of this forum, Forest Child.

If this is not in fact a personal attack, then I can only conclude that your need to control postings here must be very strong.

I find myself moved to quote the words of Kabir [the Indian mystic and saint who reputedly lived to be 120 years old!]...


Lift up the veil and meet your beloved!
When it's the Lord who dwells in every heart,
why do you say such bitter things?
Speak sweetly, and you will meet your beloved!

A lamp is shining in the hearts palace,
and in its light the world becomes divine.
Once you've found that lamp, don't ever lose it!


Go well!


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 Post subject: Re: . . . the DARK side . . .
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:26 pm 
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Posts: 260
Location: NW UK
brothermichael wrote:
I surrender to your hostility my love of contributing to, and being part of this forum, Forest Child.

If this is not in fact a personal attack, then I can only conclude that your need to control postings here must be very strong.

I find myself moved to quote the words of Kabir [the Indian mystic and saint who reputedly lived to be 120 years old!]...


Lift up the veil and meet your beloved!
When it's the Lord who dwells in every heart,
why do you say such bitter things?
Speak sweetly, and you will meet your beloved!

A lamp is shining in the hearts palace,
and in its light the world becomes divine.
Once you've found that lamp, don't ever lose it!


Go well!


Clearly I've touched a very raw nerve here and for causing pain I am sincerely sorry.

Inferring that I am controlling and bitter whilst at the same time couching those comments within the transparent guise of taking the moral high ground is a passive-aggressive stance which seems disingenuous and serves nobody well. Sometimes our dark side surfaces in the simplest of ways and it does for all of us, I'm no exception. I guess we both have something to learn from this interaction. Call me blunt by all means or plain wrong but just say it.

Control has nothing to do with my comments since I have no more control over what anyone posts here than any other member but I wonder if you really don't see the ironic connection between posting so many links back to your own writings etc on your own web site and the specific link to a page about neurotic pride posted in a comment about self love and on a thread about our darker side?


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 Post subject: Re: . . . the DARK side . . .
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:58 am 
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Rather than using meditation, dreamquests or ceremony ritual to get in touch with the dark side; their is a natural way to let it in. The only sin is restriction. By ambracing things which cause you to instinctively turn you welcome the 'dark side.'

I am not just encouraging taboo, sexual or otherise. Magikally you should do things outside of the comfort zone, things that you haven't done before and would never admit to doing. Re-address your morals by doing a requested spell without concern for the reason or outcome. If what you are doing is comfortable, easy and not worthy of confession (or keeping a secret) then you are restricting you own development.


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 Post subject: Re: . . . the DARK side . . .
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:37 am 
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Dante A. wrote:
Rather than using meditation, dreamquests or ceremony ritual to get in touch with the dark side; their is a natural way to let it in. The only sin is restriction. By ambracing things which cause you to instinctively turn you welcome the 'dark side.'

I am not just encouraging taboo, sexual or otherise. Magikally you should do things outside of the comfort zone, things that you haven't done before and would never admit to doing. Re-address your morals by doing a requested spell without concern for the reason or outcome. If what you are doing is comfortable, easy and not worthy of confession (or keeping a secret) then you are restricting you own development.


Yup, I can identify with this. Anything which is uncomfortable is most often a wonderful way to look at our dark side if we are brave enough. If it's like water off a duck's back then there is nothing to attend to.

Not sure about the spell with no concern for outcome since it could impact badly on others but certainly re-assessing one's ethical and moral centre on a regular basis is good housekeeping.


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 Post subject: Re: . . . the DARK side . . .
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:32 pm 
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Forest Child wrote:
Not sure about the spell with no concern for outcome since

Exactly!
We all must draw a line in the sand somewhere, luckily its only in sand. It is not accurate to say that I have no concern for others, but crossing that line has taught me agreat deal about myself and the universe (from a magikal perspective.)


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