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 Post subject: Stopping abusal of native seremonies
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:37 am 
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Location: Finland
I just became aware of Arizona sweat lodge accident. Years ago I received email, which plead for help to stop the abusal of sacred rites. I wondered if situation is really so bad, to call help from so long distance. Apparently it is so.

More and more I become thinking, that elders who talk about traditiol apprenticeship to learn shamanism should be listened and respected more and more carefully.

New Age-crap works mainly on material gain and pollutes all it touches. Here is link about accident:
http://www.manataka.org/page1108.html

"What can be done STOP these idiot" -is a good part and should be read. Hope new investigations appear and those reckless, greedy manipulators are jailed a long time.

Question: "Is it appropriate to sit inside a Catholic church singing a Tibetan chant? Is right for a Baptist preacher to conduct a Hindu wedding?" Is a valid question, at what right people do this sacriledge? Let the masters of each tradition share the gifts and fruits to form a bundle, each master give their own gift and form a harmonous dish. If a person has nothing to give, no fruits to carry, he start to teach other men's truths, steal their wisdom, mixing with others and their own greed, selfishiness an egoistic proud of their "superb" knowledge and skill on trivial matters - without quality of heart or understanding of whole. ARgh.
Then there is those, who willingly pay for it about 10 000$, swallow it and want even more.


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 Post Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:32 pm
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Location: Maryland
You asked what can be done to help stop this stuff. In your same posts you state

"that elders who talk about traditiol apprenticeship to learn shamanism should be listened and respected more and more carefully."

I may be seen as a bit sarcastic and cynical here but in ceremony and teaching I am quite serious. Many "Shamans" here and else where don't seem to agree there should be a need for the traditional apprenticeship anymore and all can be learned from the comfort of an air conditioned classroom like the outstanding individual running Death Lodge did.

I explained a few details on my blog blueplanetshaman.com of how these ceremonies can go wrong and why. Already I have seen those explanations plagiarized on the net by the same kind of people that take a 101 class and go out to be a teacher. I tack it up to the Darwin thing.

Said Death Lodge leader is up for charges and unfortunately the only thing that will come of it will be more white men making more Native ceremonies illegal unless you have a piece of paper from a white boy approved school to teach or conduct a Native ceremony.

Did you see he was charging up to $10,000 a person? At over 50 people I think that's about a half a million bucks. I've ran over 100 Lodges and had to serve 8 years before I could run one by myself. You think any of these new age Shamans will do that?
At the most I charged $20 and that was for fruits and juices for the people after the Lodge.

Anyone that has any knowledge of geomancy 101 would have see when not to go into an alleged Sacred Site.


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 Post Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:35 pm
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Location: Finland
That lionk I gave to Manataka American Indian Counsil provided few ways ot fight back these. Here is some good ones:

4. If you have personal knowledge or experience of a person who is selling American Indian ceremonies, write a letter the editor of your local newspaper and national news agencies; send copies to prosecutors, law enforcement agencies and political office holders. Name names, give dates, places and a short narrative.

5. These people are human predators who prey on those in need of spiritual help. They are no better than child molesters or those who rob the elderly. They sometimes appear to be American Indian and sometimes they are New Age mumbo-jumbo crazies, or well-polished and wealthy self-help frauds like Ray. Regardless, exposure is the key -- they hate the light of day.

7. Investigate the credentials of anyone offering American Indian ceremonies. If they say, "Thomas Long Wolf" or "Grandpa Jones" or whoever trained them, get specifics, phone numbers, addresses, dates, names of other participants and witnesses. Do not feel shy about asking. It is your spiritual health and integrity that is at stake. Ask reputable, recognized elders or people who walk the Good Red Road on a consistent basis.

It may be, that molesters are like viruses, not so easy to catch. They actually may believe in their work and so do their followers.

I think spiritual purifications can be found every way, was it in church praying, at home altar chanting, by silent meditation, bathing in cold spring water. Actually it is simple to do anyway, at least to some level. Why sweat lodge is so popular? Because it is exotic? Is it a trend?

I have attained Sweat Lodge twise, once with a friend, during pilgrimage in finnish Lappland and eastern border and other time with native tribe elder from Arizona doing it here in Finland. I did not even find it so strong method for so shy and silent national character. It is not so easy to open your heart and cry out your wishes or gratefullness to god publicly, where those all others can hear you. That staff we usually do here alone. We like more silence, just being together is sometimes enough.


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 Post Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:32 pm
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Location: Maryland
OK, i appreciate you concerned efforts. Let me point out that there is still tribal rivalry going on here. Not only are there over 50 different tribal languages but we are also divided between matriarchal and patriarchal peoples.

There are the traditionalist and non traditionalists. Only the people who go along with white thinking call themselves Indians. Everyone else looks at themselves as Natives.

That thing about phone numbers is a joke and as far as addresses there are parts of the country that many people will use the same "address. I don't know how many people use "Route 1 Box 8" in my home area. Phones? A lot of my familt still don't have electricity or water in their houses.

You must also understand that while you may be known in the white world as "Jusma the Fin" in another tribe you may be known as " Jus Fish Belly" and in another tribe "Yellow Snow". Just ask the government how difficult it can be to get an accurate count on Native population.

Look for scars. Four holes or tears in the chest. Massive wounds in the back. Ask them to speak their language as they teach the class and translate into English at the same time.

Actually it's rare that these things happen. Other people to watch for: Morgan Eagle Bear, Two Feathers, Red Duke, Jose Ravenwing and Harley Swift Deer are top of my list.


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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:44 am 
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Thanks, I had no idea, it is so messy there.

By the way, may I ask what is the meaning of sacrificing own flesh for the spirit? That native from Arizona had scars of seven sundance rituals. Are they nowadays doing it also to entertain turists?
I guess most seremonies are taken for a showbusiness and some still keep them sacred. Hard thing to change, when considered there may not be anything else source for incomes.

I thought all seremonies were for community. Like sweat lodge, it is not only shaman who builds up the tent, but all are helping with building it. It is not only bathing there, but building also and all preparation work is a part of seremony. To strenghten the spirit of community by building something together.

That way I grow to think "basic shaman workshops" may be first step and almost only available way for a start. But the real thing, an elder, is needed to get something right in long term guidance. TO explain the whole and prevent people to get too attached into tiny parts separated from whole.


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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:45 am 
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Your last sentence of the your paragraph was the wisest thing I've read here so far.

It's hard to keep up with what everyone else is doing so I don't. Yes some people make shows out of the sundances. We don't make any style of tourist attractions out of anything.

Every tribe has their way of doing things and their reasons why. I'm fine with letting whites, blacks and whoever else come to a Lodge as long as they respect the space and I don't think they are out to make money from the teachings. People's souls are hungry for a way that makes sense and there are people from all paths ready to milk them from money. True Shamanism has a beautiful way of cleaning itself and people can die in the process. Once you are in the flow of true Shamanism you will have what you need. No one needs $500K for a week workshop.

You can go around and get information from all kinds of teachers and they will tell you what they think is the right stuff. Ask for proof. They should be able to give you absolute proof their teachings work BEFORE you sign on to their classes, for free. Period.

In the next couple days I will have lessons that give proof on my blog.


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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:02 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:35 pm
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Location: Finland
Shaman Hawk wrote:
In the next couple days I will have lessons that give proof on my blog.


Let's wait and see then.


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 Post subject: tid bit from wiki ...'plastic shamans'.......
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:22 am
Posts: 35
Location: fort lauderdale
Plastic shaman
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Plastic shaman is a pejorative colloquialism applied to individuals who are attempting to pass themselves off as shamans, holy people, or other traditional spiritual leaders, but who have no genuine connection to the traditions or cultures they claim to represent. In some cases, the "plastic shaman" may have some genuine cultural connection, but is seen to be exploiting that knowledge for ego, power or money.[1][2][3]

Plastic shamans are believed by their critics to use the mystique of these cultural traditions, and the legitimate curiosity of sincere seekers, for personal gain. In some cases, exploitation of students and traditional culture may involve the selling of fake "traditional" spiritual ceremonies, fake artifacts, fictional accounts in books, illegitimate tours of sacred sites, and often the chance to buy spiritual titles.[1][2][3]


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