Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ

Board index » General Discussion » Shamanism




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Shamanism versus Religioun.
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:52 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Washington, U.S.A.
Peace be upon all.
Many people say that Shamanism is separate from religoun and faith.
I do not. Forgive me, Allah, if I am to forebearing upon people. But when I see people trying to confuse things, or confusing them on purpose or not, I
by duty am sworn to say something.

Islam and Shamanism are one. The Shaman seeks reality, guidance, and truth in practice and in existence. No, the Shaman recognizes such reality.
Shamanism, which may involve rituals, prayers, and the performance of various arcane uses of the spiritual faculties, and Islam, a set of beliefs concerning what reality is, are one. I am a muslim: I a christian, I am a jew, a hindu, buddhist, a druid, so on and so forth. I am a muslim because I am a shaman, and because I am one who submits entirely to Allah. One can be any label, christian, mormon, taoist, etc. and still be a muslim. That is because Islam is a religioun and faith of absolute submission and devotion to Allah. Buddha and Abraham and Jesus all practiced various forms of the same thing; total absorption in Allah.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:44 pm
Posts: 21
I do not understand why you are contesting such knowledge about shamanism... The reason it is separate from religion is that it places no one spirit above another, they are all equally important. It would be like saying the spirit of the wind is the most important spirit and all others come second! You must come to terms with this, this IS shamanism. All spirits, animals, plant life, elements and ancestors are equally important and play a role as such. It is about coming to the realization that we, our planet and everything in it are connected and share purpose. Shamanism is not built upon belief systems such as mainstream religions are. It is about coming into contact with these spirits in reality... Receiving guidance, knowledge and understanding with the main goal of enlightenment and a humbled spirit.
Shamanism can co-exist with most religions because most religions recognize a creator. Incorporating a religion into shamanism strengthens your ties with the divine and can help complete life's purpose...To live in balance with all life forms during the physical life to set the stage for the most important transition...The death of the flesh and the final passage into the spirit realm.

Peace, walkinspirit


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:52 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Washington, U.S.A.
[quote="walkthepath"]I do not understand why you are contesting such knowledge about shamanism... The reason it is separate from religion is that it places no one spirit above another, they are all equally important. It would be like saying the spirit of the wind is the most important spirit and all others come second! You must come to terms with this, this IS shamanism. All spirits, animals, plant life, elements and ancestors are equally important and play a role as such. It is about coming to the realization that we, our planet and everything in it are connected and share purpose. Shamanism is not built upon belief systems such as mainstream religions are. It is about coming into contact with these spirits in reality... Receiving guidance, knowledge and understanding with the main goal of enlightenment and a humbled spirit.
Shamanism can co-exist with most religions because most religions recognize a creator. Incorporating a religion into shamanism strengthens your ties with the divine and can help complete life's purpose...To live in balance with all life forms during the physical life to set the stage for the most important transition...The death of the flesh and the final passage into the spirit realm.

Peace, walkinspirit[/quote]

Peace be upon all.

The virtues you just used to describe Shamanism, are all religious virtues.
Shamanism IS religion. It's a more liberal form of it, with or without a sense
of what people call dogma. Again, I quote the Quran in saying that there is no compulsion in religion. People create their own dogmas.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:26 am
Posts: 181
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Honestly, I can read the Quran by myself - and do not need others that quote from it, repeatedly.

Malak, I would prefer to read your personal, own opinion - an opinion that do not have any quotations or references to any written "holy book" at all.

Otherwise any discussion is senseless.

I am no monotheist at all and consider any clear monotheistic attempts of persuasion as an act of disrespect towards mine own believes.

Yours,

Apu Kuntur


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:52 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Washington, U.S.A.
[quote="Apu Kuntur"]Honestly, I can read the Quran by myself - and do not need others that quote from it, repeatedly.

Malak, I would prefer to read your personal, own opinion - an opinion that do not have any quotations or references to any written "holy book" at all.

Otherwise any discussion is senseless.

I am no monotheist at all and consider any clear monotheistic attempts of persuasion as an act of disrespect towards mine own believes.

Yours,

Apu Kuntur[/quote]

Peace be upon all.

Apu, by quoting my Quran I intended no disrespect. But, why should I not quote it? What the Quran says, that is my opinion. I think what the scriptures
say. Besides, the Quran is the book of my religion. If any people wish me to explain my religion, it is better to quote the Quran and let that be it. My own personal opinions coulld be incorrect.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:52 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Washington, U.S.A.
I intend no attempts of persuasion.
Sometimes I seem that way, like a preacher. That is one of my purposes in life, not so on the internet. To persuade people in regards to monotheism, purposefully, by using the internet, is a dishonorable approach. If I am to attempt any such thing, it will be in person in the form of a session where someone asks a question, and I give them a simple answer without confounding it with my personal opinions. Unfortunately, on this forum it seems that things are turning into a bit of an argument. That is not intended.

As I have stated, my sole intention is to show the difference between falsehood and truth. Not, to convince anyone of anything. I show you truth; take it or leave it. I don't care either way. We are all on this sacred Earth together. So, keep it simple; ask and I will answer.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:26 am
Posts: 181
Location: Bavaria, Germany
It is your truth that is based on the Quran, which is itself the base of a monotheistic religion. No way around it.

Either you are telling us in your own words, what you want to tell us, or not. In the latter case I can easily read the Quran by myself, which I did twice. Also I have read the bible and the black book of the yezids and the unwritten "book" of the kurds, which I have a very good resource of, I have studied the middle-egyptian hieroglyphic texts and the vedic root-texts. And so on ... - so, your truth is only one truth, and surely no absolute one.

I do not need to quote any book to tell you my point of view. It should be easily possible for you. If not, you are not better then Jehovas Witnesses, which only can quote from their bibles.

Yours,

Apu Kuntur


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:34 am
Posts: 39
Location: New Mexico
The 19th Malak AlGennah wrote:

As I have stated, my sole intention is to show the difference between falsehood and truth. Not, to convince anyone of anything. I show you truth; take it or leave it. I don't care either way. We are all on this sacred Earth together. So, keep it simple; ask and I will answer.


And this is what religion does...but pre-religious shamanism does not. Religion is not shamanism. One could of course, say baseball is a religion, but....

It is well documented that shamanism is different from religion. Have you done your homework? I think not.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:52 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Washington, U.S.A.
[quote="shamanRN"][quote="The 19th Malak AlGennah"]

As I have stated,[b] my sole intention is to show the difference between falsehood and truth[/b]. Not, to convince anyone of anything. I show you truth; take it or leave it. I don't care either way. We are all on this sacred Earth together. So, keep it simple; ask and I will answer.[/quote]

And this is what religion does...but pre-religious shamanism does not. Religion is not shamanism. One could of course, say baseball is a religion, but....

It is well documented that shamanism is different from religion. Have you done your homework? I think not.[/quote]

Peace be upon all.
I have done the homework of all humanity.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:34 am
Posts: 39
Location: New Mexico
I think you do care otherwise you wouldn't have posted. So when will you "show the difference between falsehood and truth?"


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:59 am
Posts: 35
Too Many contradictions.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:59 am
Posts: 35
Why does every one have to be wrong for you to be right,this is not the first time that the world of Islam have posted here,or the last,I find that Budaism has the most in common with shamanism in that it is not a religion so much as an understanding and an exercise in focussing the mind in order to utilize our full potentiel,which in my opinion is our purpose in this life,organized religions are an elitist organization resulting in hate and opression throughout the world,how much history do we need to know to realize that this kind of thinking is what destroys us,because for you to be right someone must be wrong,soa world full of people must adopt these ways that were not a part of our culture or heritage or be a part of the Crusading Infidel and not worthy of life,we were made along with the rest of the world,then to control others and place ourselves at the godhead we created religion and hell,a terrible place where we can send our enemies and anyone who's opinion differs from ours,and governments utilize these things to manipulate populations to whatever coarse they would not otherwise choose as rational peace loving children of this Earth,Now here we are again,singing the same old hate or be hated,there is nothing wrong with a personal religiouse beliefe if it gives you comfort,but it should be kept personal otherwhise its just rude and overbearing,what becomes of the minority when you become a majority,what part of your belief system will guarantee their right to live ,love and laugh in their own way,isnt this forum awsome,what was that famous quote of Jenghis kahn,Join me or Die,seems like we cant get away from the absolutes,in my opinion it all stems from a lack of respect for each other and a willingness to take what we believe we need at the time,instead of having to trade fairly for something someone has,or taking No for an answer and respecting their right to disagree or abstain from trade,so we come to how religion plays a part in the world market,fair market value,or uderminning the government through religiouse strife and upheavel to better access that countries mineral wealth,the old Roman strategy,traders,missionaries,road builders,the next thing you know your sittin on someone elses land pushin a religion that isnt yours either,keeping people as ignorant as possible so they wont know when histories repeating itself,and what a nice group of solgiers they make,accessing knowledge from our ancestors would be counter destructive to this regime,so infiltrate the shaman,undermine and overwhelm.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:34 am
Posts: 39
Location: New Mexico
Nice, Tony. Peter Calhoun, former Episcopal priest and now shaman and author of "Soul on Fire," says he had to "leave the church to find out what it had lost." Peter also says, "Shamanism is not another religion or system of belief; it is a way of perceiving and relating to the wondrous world around us. It is the original source out of which all religions and systems of knowledge evolved. I awoke to a way of knowledge and power that is rooted in the remote past."


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:20 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Private
Religion: (noun) A set of formal beliefs relying on faith. A formal philosophical architecture supplying a foundation of understanding for the otherwise undefined world around you.

1. Shamanism: (noun) An anthropological category defining animist belief structures within tribal societies around the world which employ a shaman or similar office for healing, spirit negotiations, psychopomp, dream interpretations, and the overall spiritual well being of the tribe and each member.

2. Shamanism: The individual techniques, skills, or tasks employed by the generic office of animist tribal societies which can be known as shaman collectively if not referring to specific traditions, clans, tribes, or belief structures by name.

Animism: (noun) From the Greek Anima meaning animating force, from which the terms animation and animator are derived. A philosophical belief structure with multi-layered elements of animistic awareness and spiritual empowerment that allows the virtual personification of such forces as wind, man vs. nature when climbing the majestic mountain, and such temporal elements as Father Christmas and Jack Frost.

Shamanism is not the religion. Shamanism is a category of religions as Monotheism is a category of religions. Christianity is a monotheistic religion as The Comanche of the American south west were a shamanic tribal culture.

While the Sioux of the Great Plains, perhaps the greatest of the American Horse Culture Tribes, are categorized as Shamanic in cultural foundation, the Concept of the Great White Spirit sort of eliminates the whole "no god above others" Concept. To show this is not merely an aberration, read the four world emergence stories of creation from the American South West, or the Stories of Crow from the Pacific North West and Alaska.

Which, brings up another issue...

Islam belongs to the category of Monotheism, just as Christianity does. I will not begrudge you the use of Core shaman techniques in either, and would instead encourage documentation and explanation to others of your religious paths, it is the religion which determines the name of your belief structure. If you follow Islam, you are a follower of Islam, if you follow any of the variants of the new testament churches you are Christian.

For my part, I am an Animist with ancestor worship and some animal reverence features. If I followed Judaism, a fundamental form that included shamanistic techniques, I would be Jewish, by faith if not heritage.

While the core elements can be isolated, removed, studied, dissected, discarded, disgraced, and eventually grafted into virtually any other system, it is important to remember there is a big difference between what a shamanistic tribal belief system is, and the elements you've isolated to define the characteristics necessary to be one. The first is wholly, and in entirety, a religion and cultural property of the people. The second is nothing more than a menu you get at a restaurant where you order up what you like and forget the rest.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:52 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Washington, U.S.A.
[quote="shamanRN"]I think you do care otherwise you wouldn't have posted. So when will you "show the difference between falsehood and truth?"[/quote]

I am showing it. It is really just a matter of looking, listening, and reflecting.
It does not take much to understand.

It is a falsehood to say shamanism is separate from religion, even if one believes it is not religion in and of it's self.

Is your thumb also your palm? No. But they are one. They are not separate.


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Board index » General Discussion » Shamanism


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

phpBB SEO