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 Post subject: Shaman Jailed
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:13 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:16 pm
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Location: NW UK
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/02/shaman-jailed-over-hallucinogenic-ayahuasca

I don't know this person but wonder what your thoughts are?

Personally I feel the court was right. I don't care how long he trained or who with, to take 20 people you hardly know (and this must have been the case since the BBC sting involved a Doctor who posed as a cancer victim), many of whom are terminally ill, with bodies already compromised by existing treatments and the illness itself, then give them a banned, A listed, psychotropic drug concoction with no qualified medical assistance on hand in case something goes wrong is just plain arrogant and stupid. Sorry but this guy, regardless of how his legal defense profess him to be genuinely trying to help, should not be allowed anywhere near the ill.


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 Post subject: Re: Shaman Jailed
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:33 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:35 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Finland
Oh, yes. Let's make a pot and drink it in a circle. Let's call that a "healing ritual".

Even if it worked for somebody. Event and jailing itself is a good remainder, that rituals brought from different parts of world are not culturally compatible. As already seen with many cases presented in this forum.

When hallusinogens are used as a medicine and a part of treatment, it should made by licenced professionals, who really understand what their own responsibilities are at the situation. Drugs can be used effectively, but curing a cancer for example, probably needs a little bit more to do than just getting high in a group. Serious healing work is one to one for my liking. Can one person really observe 20 people group during intense ritual and take care of their wellbeing? (could be compared with swetlodge insidence)
In my opinion, these people are reckless, no matter how good or bad their original intentions are.


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 Post subject: Re: Shaman Jailed
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:40 am 
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I've never taken it so I can't comment personally but a close friend who has worked with people coming out of this was not very positive about it at all. She says that repeated use of Ayahuasca leads to confusion, paranoia and feelings of self aggrandisement in the practitioner.

Like all such powerful, mind altering substances, respect and generations of cultural knowledge are required, not just a few weeks here and there learning how to brew the stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Shaman Jailed
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:11 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:35 pm
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Location: Finland
Even then I do not know if traditions which use substances to alter mind set is doing any good. Here some sages used alcohol to give a lift or boost their nervous system, which enables them to tune with "higher" vibrations or whatever. It worked for them, but they also died at quite young age because of healthy issues heavy use of alcohol brought. Some friends tried amanita muscarity, but appeared only drooling idiots, nothing "hightening" happened.
Finland's written history also shows, that ergot was used to strenghten beer during summer celebrations. There is always been drug use for entertainment.

But at this modern age I do not see a tradition as an excuse to actually use them. At least the reckless way so many are doing. This week it was in the news, how two potheaded kids beat and kick a bussdriver until he could not move and left the place laughing. Bussdriver got permanent brain damage.

If a substance is traditional medicine in one culture it is not automaticly doing any good at larger perspective. Sometimes I wonder, if for example cannibalism would be existing tradition, habit would not be critised because it is a tradition.


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 Post subject: Re: Shaman Jailed
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:21 am 
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So very true. We seem to have this automatic acceptance that what a 1st nation people do must be ok because it is their culture. Sometimes it isn't but nor is it our right to go telling them to stop either.

Canibalism is a great example, so is killing any child born with a birthmark or binding women's feet. Some traditions are not good and deep down, most of us know that we need to put the hard work in if we want the visionary experiences, not merely go on holiday to enjoy a 'trip'.


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 Post subject: Re: Shaman Jailed
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Whatever you may think of Grandfather Timothy Leary, what he said about Set and Setting in the context of drug use is solid advice.

Basically it is that the environment in which you partake of a substance, plus where you are mentally, are vitally important in determining what kind of experience you have. There's a Reason why there are rituals connected to the use of psychoactives--it's to get the brain in the right "space".

As far as they guy who is taking people who are ill on trips ? Very glad he is in jail. Speaking as someone who has had to "keep track" of people experiencing non-ordinary reality, one person really can't oversee 20 healthy people, much less those who are ill. Someone here said intensive healing work should be done one-on-one, and I would agree with that.


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 Post subject: Re: Shaman Jailed
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:16 pm
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Rivermoon wrote:
. . . one person really can't oversee 20 healthy people, much less those who are ill. Someone here said intensive healing work should be done one-on-one, and I would agree with that.


Exactly, it is the wrong way around, the combined energy of 20 healthy people (our community) can have an amazing impact in healing one person!


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