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 Post subject: Plastic Shamanism
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:11 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:02 am
Posts: 1
This is an interesting subject. In as far as calling white shamanism neo-shamanism. I'm ok with that. What most white folks practice as shamanism is not what happens in native cultures per se. That does not make what white folks practice invalid. What the second shaman said is true too. We are all native to mother earth. We do not need to be ashamed of that fact simply because we were not born into a certain culture. If we are called to practice some form of connection to Mother Earth, then we should do so. If what we do is harmful to or disrespectful of, or takes unfair advantage of others or Mother Earth, then we are indeed "Plastic Shamans." If, on the other hand, we are drawn closer to Mother Earth, and we are helpful to and respectful of others, then we are true Shamans in my book. Thanks for listening.


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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:22 pm
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Location: Western USA
If what we do is harmful to or disrespectful of, or takes unfair advantage of others or Mother Earth, then we are indeed "Plastic Shamans."

This is new age logic and has nothing to do with traditional shamanism or for that matter with some aspects of contemporary shamans. Traditional shamans in indigenous cultures could heal as well as kill with the same skill set. Battles between shamans with opposing clients are legendary in traditional societies where shamansim is/was practiced. Some groups of shamans in South America still today routinely practiced terrible forms of ritual murder and selective canabalism of rotting corpses in order to increase their power (See the Duke University Press study by Neil Whitehead called "Dark Shamans"). Today shamans in New Guinea and Africa continue to identify, call out and help kill those who are accused of witchcraft against members of their community. Shamanism has little to do with the image presented in New Age literature. Dennis


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 Post subject: Response to Plastic Shamanism
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:05 pm
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There was once a time when I felt much the same as the author of "Plastic Shamanism." Sometimes I brush against the memory of it and it contaminates me.

My journey towards wisdom has been arduous and painful. What have I learned?
We are all indiginous; we all belong to the Mother Earth. There is not a soul who is here without the Creator's blessings; The good and the evil go round and round and they come in all colors...
all races, all cultures, all religions,
When are we going to stop with the racism and prejudice?
Who stands in the throne and decides who the healers are?
Additionally, There will always be those who USE other's pain to benefit themselves. They come in all colors.
MIchelle


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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:20 am
Posts: 36
Location: Arvada, CO, USA
Good shamans, dark shamans, neo shamans, indigenous shamans-----the one thing they all have in common is power, or a connection to the spirit world.

My naive image of a plastic shaman, when I first read the term, is someone who does not have the connection, does not have the power, but claims they do. Someone who truly exploits the native ways by going out and making money by doing something he has no knowledge or ability to do.

I don't know if such fake shamans actually exist. I do have a friend who worked on a psychic hotline. She knew the questions to ask, the cues to pick up on, but in truth, both her and her husband are convinced that there is no such thing as the supernatural. For example, they got into an argument with my wife, when we related to them how she smells incense, or a candle burning before one of her relatives pass away. It has happened too many times to be coincidence. But they couldn't believe it and argued that it is impossible. Even if this girl had a gift of clairvoyence that she did not know of, I would call her a plastic clairvoyent, because she is exploiting something she does not even believe in.

I imagine that this is why certain indigenous people refer to non-indigenous as plastic. They have the racially biased belief that someone outside of their culture cannot communicate with their spirits, or more importantly they cannot share the respect and honor that the spirits deserve. But can we blame them----white man looked at them like savages for most of the past 200+ years. It was illegal for them to even practice their own traditions until the 1980's. It was ok for white people to go around and explore any belief they wanted, but Native Americans could not even do a sun dance legally on the reservation. Then our patent-medicine sellers would go around selling mixtures of cocaine, sugar water, and flavorings labelling it as a Native American cure-all. Who could blame them?

But the spirits do communicate with anyone, and in time maybe everyone will realize that.

But I stand by my statement that anyone who does not have the ability to communicate with the spirit world, does not want to try, and doesn't even believe in it, but they want to treat it as a fad and make money, or whatever, claiming themselves to be shamans, then they are plastic.

Mountain Valley Wolf


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:54 pm
Posts: 237
Location: Australia
Greetings Mountain Valley Wolf

I agree with a large part of your last post.
I guess the thing to remember is not to become too angry at those situations, instead just recognise them for what they are and then let them pass, because anger towards others tends to be like a crowded elevator.
The more people blocking the doorway the less traffic able to flow, and pretty soon the oxygen becomes stagnant in the room. Recognise and release so that new can replace it. Anger tends to circle about itself continously until it runs low on batteries and seeks out an elevator instead of the stairs.

Elizabeth :D


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:21 am
Posts: 12
Location: Northern Sweden
Plastic, stone, glass, whatever-shamanism.. as long as it works and ppl get healed, stronger, better and cured it's OK in my book.

(Btw: HI everyone! I'm new here.)


Peace,
BB


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:54 pm
Posts: 237
Location: Australia
Greetings BB

Elizabeth


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:18 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:50 am
Posts: 44
Location: Pennsylavania
I have read so many posts over the years about this one. I have a few comments in this forum about it.

If you abuse the powers gifted to you you will lose them.

Plastic Shaman - a person who works out the charges for the service.

I do have to laugh because they are being called a shaman just charging....lol

On a different note. I recently had someone drive 18 hours and worked with her for 10 hours. I think a smile and a hug was all I got.

Reminder to everyone. If you don't help those who genuinely need it then you are not serving this path.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:26 am
Posts: 181
Location: Bavaria, Germany
For the Natives of N-America all are plastics who sell the Native's Spirituality and are themselves not at all Natives. Obviously a real problem in the USA, here in Europe as well. You offer classes in NA-Spiritual Rituals. For free? Or do you take money for it? Then you are a plastic in their eyes, regardless what you do otherwise.

The rage of the Natives I can understand - but after incidents happening between November 07 and January 08 I stopped fighting against those Plastics at all.

Yours,

Apu Kuntur


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:54 pm
Posts: 237
Location: Australia
Just something to ponder...

Even plastic particles were originally born of Plant Earth.
Funny isn't it?

How strange that jealousy, greed, hatred, racism and ignorance can all be tossed about from one back yard to another like trash out of a trashcan.
I wonder when the garbage will stop, and the truth unfold?

Elizabeth :idea:


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:17 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:26 am
Posts: 181
Location: Bavaria, Germany
As long as there ARE those things they do not end.

For them it is a question of respect. They see greed and all that in the deeds the plastics do and not in their own actions against the plastics. Consider the Tengerism-movement in Siberia: they try to open our eyes to the use of the title "shaman" which belongs to a certain Siberian tribe (the Evenks).

I always tried to explain that "shamans" are not at home here in Europe. So I am a Spellsinger and Condordancer (and with that some Natives have problems ...).

Yours,

Apu Kuntur


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:59 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:54 pm
Posts: 237
Location: Australia
And so the great circle is complete.

Warts and all.

One could argue an eternity over words and labels, however it would leave one very little time for living and being.

Elizabeth


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