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 Post subject: Nervoussystem and altered state of consciousness.
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:38 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:35 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Finland
When thinking, what is common in some journeymethods, these seem to effect nerves.
When using drugs, alchol or other substances to achieve trance states these have an effect in central nervous system.
Fasting, physical exertion, staying awake, to get very tired also effect nerves and perception of surroundings change.

When awareness of own body disappears, there is quite plain experience of spirit.

But sometimes experience of spirit happens without any manauvers, like spontaneus journeys, synchronities in daily life, feelings of presence of spirit helpers...

Why use of any substances result spiritual experience? Is it because of chemistry working causing hallusinations or do those break psycological defences, so spirit can come near and be heard?

Is there mechanics, system how it works?


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:45 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:25 pm
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I'm not exactly sure what you';e asking, but hallucinogens tend to make a journey accessible in a way that's different than sober meditation. Not saying it's anymore effective, though it's always been highly practiced(by the shamans who use ayahuasca to journey for example). I know DXM has been helpful for some to enter the shamanic realm of consciousness, though I don't recommend it. There are many ways to enter a journey through the use of hallucinogens or psychedelics.


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:31 pm 
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I am trying to figure out, if hallusinogens tend to make a journey more accessible, why it is so?
At what point you know you are doing journey instead of just having hallusions?
How chemicals and psyche and spirit work together?
But not only about chemicals, but in common.
What are the mechanics, fuctions behind spiritual experience?


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:38 pm 
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I think the use of substances allows the mind to "lose" control - hence, the mind is more open to the experience.

But then, there is also the danger of how "open" you become. If you are not experienced with the use of hallucinogens, then I would suggest you work with another trained shaman who is. It is critical when working with Ayahuasca that there be somebody "in charge" of the journey, not just doing it on your own until you are experienced.


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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:52 am 
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Might be a bit off, but I believe it's not the potions themselves, but how you use them. All the best shamans of all cultures may have a couple drugs of one kind or another in their repertoire, but I think it's mostly how they use them in such a relaxed yet energetic way that makes them the most potent.

Rituals, I'm talkin' ceremonies and village affairs. If your gonna just drink alone before a trip, then your only helpin' yourself, but make a ritual out of it and you'll get some powerful trances workin' up.

Or so I have experienced.


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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:13 pm
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Location: Kamouraska
Good evening Jusma,

You have a very scientific approach, it is your way and the correct way for you. The chemistry involved would need a few pages, but basically drugs make our brain produce hormones that help you understand things, see things and do things differently.

The real question in my sense is : Why do you really want to investigate the chemistry of a chamanic journey ?

El Rachara speaks of the dangers when the mind is traveling. His advice is wise, but you already agree with that because of your scientific approach, it is your way as I said.

And yes, the way a shaman uses the drugs is very different of the way drug addicts use drugs. There are many ways and rituals in shamanism but you need to have someone to help you at first.

May your search be profitable,

E.W. Aweel


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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:55 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:35 pm
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Because it is in my nature to ask question, like why. :)

What I know about scientific studies show, that altered state uses aplha brainwaves, ok. I've heard human body can exrete small amounts of DMT and alcohol, has those any role in spiritual experiences is just interesting.

But more it is with that, what Dr. Iron said: " It is not the potions themselves, but how you use them."

There was a time, when I was heavily drunk, and it turned spiritual experience without much any reason. For example my face started to show complately different faces for a friend of mine, maybe from ancient past do not know and I was just feeling present, letting world turn around me. Same time friend was experincing to be a dog. Just wondering what may cause that. It was only alcohol and incence we used there, no hallusinogens.

And also, there are those times, when nothing were used at all and spiritual realm has come very close. Maybe that is reason also not to do journeys much anymore, but relaying more in dreams. No need for rituals or potions actually.

But, yes to make potions to work ritual gives it a contects. With scientific approuch, I am curious with the difference, when brainwaves are changed to alpha and that way perception of reality changes and what happens when drugs are used and what makes it spiritual?

I am tracking the processes of mind losing control, so spirit can be experienced. I am thinking, what Rachara El said, that there is danger to become too open, and you are going to lose yourself. I bet all have heard about those chemistry involved "trips", which sadly never ended.
Same thing has happened with yoga also, when nervoussystem is not strong enough for kundalini to rise, and result leads to kundalinipsychosis. Which has same kind of symptoms with hallusions and inabilty to come back into range of ordinary perception, as those taken LSD too much.

There are great deal of people near satgurus as deciples and it is not only enlightment they get. Suicides and mental illnesses do occur also quite often, which is not very often publicly talked about. But for centuries in attempt to face god people are driven themselves mad.

In that light I do like to learn about dangers and how to walk path with understanding of whole process, being yogateacher, when yoga is understood as science of spirit.

Connection to spirit seems so far to be just removing obstacles like mind, selfconsciousness away, which may be helped with different substances, sounds, movements, physical exertion. Nothing of these however seem to guarantee anything. So we come back to openness and maybe surrendering as key factors. Is openness and "losing mind-control" enough? Everybody need to keep intention strong to do meaningful journeys. Whether it is to just sit and being with god, where is no thoughts. Hmmm... I think I get something. Thank you!


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