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 Post subject: more than
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:38 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Idaho Falls, ID USA
IMO shamanism is more than journey and more than power animals. though i'm not arguing that it contains these two things. but what else does it contain?

note; i'm not looking for help. it seems that people often reply and say; "i hope that this helps". i'm just opening a door for discussion. which may or may not happen.

in frith and bliss,
Crowfuzz


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 Post Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:56 pm
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Location: West Coast Canada
What else? A point of view....or a level of awareness.


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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:22 pm
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Location: Western USA
Crowfuzz: Hi! For me journeying is the mother load of shamanism. From journey work it is possible to mine as much gold as you need so in my foolish practice I've seen little need to look outside of journey work. Also I'm not much attracted to rituals, ritual tools, dressing up, in ritual rags or whatever...I like simplicity so for me there's notching simpler than visiting with my helping spirits and allies to see how best to hand IT (whatever the IT of the moment is).

Because I've been doing this for a long time I use both the tradition journey and the bilocation method. I use drums or drumming CDs for the former and a quick chant in my heart/mind while I sitting at my desk, or working, or talking with others to achieve the latter. I use the quick chant to induce a very shallow altered state of consciousness in which I can quickly seek information and/or advice or support from Bear or from my inner teacher about what to say or do. The shift back and forth is quick enough that those around me never notice.

To bring about a significant change in ordinary reality I usually use a more formal journey and do all of the work in non-ordinary reality (NOR) with my spirit friends, assuming they agree to help, that's need in order to manifest the change in ordinary reality (OR). Respectfully, Dennis


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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:34 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:10 pm
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Location: Idaho Falls, ID USA
howdy Vigdisdotter,
Vigdisdotter wrote:
What else? A point of view....or a level of awareness.


well those are both certainly helpful in shamanizing, i think.
:wink:

i feel that the entire weave or wyrd is open to shamanism whether a person is deeply trancing and faring out or lightly trancing and enacting spell work. i think that there is a place in shamanism for ritual, and for a sense of awareness or bilocated perception that enacts change even though the shamanic practitioner(s) has not left their body(s). spirits can come to us, it's not always a matter of our going to them.

so when in a state of bilocation and in contact with a spirit or spirits, isnt that still shamanizing?


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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:10 pm
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Location: Idaho Falls, ID USA
howdy Dennis!
now how did i know that you'd feel this way?
8)

i have to agree with you that "journeying is the mother load of shamanism". it is the core component which allows everything else to fall into place. and i would further categorize this as *deliberate* journeying which is the essential element. i know of and am one myself of those people who accidentally slipped into journey occasionally at times throughout my life without understanding or controlling what it was. i think that there needs to be control for it to be shamanic practice. though accidental journeys may have depth and results, control is the wand of the magician. so to speak.

however, i tend to think that the experience, the ability, the skill of faring out is only one component. even though it's a very crucial one, even the most crucial.

simplicity is good. and when all is said and done a person who feels that they are a "shaman" or a shamanic practitioner or any of those label/title things that designate heavy mojo people, when all is said and done that person should be able to trance and contact their spirits with eyes open or closed in silence or in chaos clothed or nekkid and with speed.

and yet . . . and yet . . . sometimes ritual is a very connective thing. ritual can invite the spirits in, rather than the person faring out. sometimes bilocation is an often present state. sometimes spirits and shamanisms move in strange and mysterious ways.

i feel that there are times when a person moves their body in dance. or open their throats to tone or to galdr such as with runes. or works in a spirit filled flow with crafting or sewing to create something spirit driven. i feel that at those times that there is more to the actions involved than just the mundane. if the body/mind/spirit is a whole entity connected in and through wyrd, then all of the person, body/mind/spirit can engage in shamanism.

JMO, of course.
frith and bliss,
Crowfuzz


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:03 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:50 am
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Location: Pennsylavania
Hey Crowfuzz,

I want to add that trance state (journeying) is what I feel is the mother load.

The things I want to add are.

1. effecting a change in this world as well as the spirit world of the person.
2. Bringing together comunity to better this world.
3. growing as a person and helping others to grow whether others know you are a practicing shamn or not.

I had a client sunday. I spent the first couple hours talking with them. I saw the paths they used to get where they were, how they convinced themselves of what they were doing and so on.

Once I found the common threads we pulled them to the surface.

Most people cannot see what they did to get themselves to where they are. My job is to do what I can to pull them above the situation and offer them what I can see as a change as well as doing a ceremony to effect that change.

Great post crow and dennis!

Trav


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:13 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:57 am
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Location: London, England
crowfuzz wrote:
when all is said and done that person should be able to trance and contact their spirits with eyes open or closed in silence or in chaos clothed or nekkid and with speed.

and yet . . . and yet . . . sometimes ritual is a very connective thing. ritual can invite the spirits in, rather than the person faring out. sometimes bilocation is an often present state. sometimes spirits and shamanisms move in strange and mysterious ways.
Good thread.

Reading your post above, it reminds me of this - I can phone my mother first thing in the morning, sitting in my nightie with my hair standing on end, or I can make a formal dinner and invite her and other honoured guests for whom I'd dress smartly and put on a show of elborate cooking that i wouldn't normally do for my own meals.

Both are good, both have their place, and both are good ways to be able to be with those you love, respect, and trust. :)

And I agree with Trav that effecting positive, productive changes in this world is a highly desirable goal, without which all the deep and intense journeys in the world would seem a bit hollow to me (personal view only! :wink: )


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