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 Post subject: masters and servants or friends and allies
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:45 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Idaho Falls, ID USA
it seems that the archaeological type folks who've studies shamanic practices around the world have often put forth a view of the shaman as master and the spirits as servants. IMO it's a friend and ally situation, an alliance. but what is your view on this?

in frith and bliss,
Crowfuzz


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 Post subject: Hi alli'
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:20 pm
Posts: 8
Location: In the land of the towering Sound, U.S. 042
You need to check out the Nordic path. It's right up your alley.

Hi crowfuzz. For two months I had gone to live in my father's sister house.
in Council, ID I thought I'd have the time of my life there. I was even given my own room; a bungalow off the side house... I would lyecincrowstanding arrow with the window open and a smell would come to me--oprah was on the five cable channels and i smlled--orange blossoms.

How's it going? I have a feeling we are akin.

Hope to hear from others like myself.

Bye for now dear, dear.


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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:12 am 
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crowfuzz,
Remember me from beliefnet? Anyway I have datura growing on my property and I did a shamanic journey to connect with its spirit. She said, "I am a harsh mistress." I replied, "I am not looking for a mistress I am looking for an ally." Long story short she agreed to be one of my allies and guides on lowerworld journeys.

I have never thought of myself as a master of the spirits. They are friends, allies, guides, teachers, challenges, etc. never servants.


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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:22 pm
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Location: Western USA
Crowfuzz!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gretings, my friend! Dennis


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Idaho Falls, ID USA
Dennis, my friend! it’s very good to see you here!

howdy Gwelt, of course I remember you. I’m glad that you’re here.

I love the beauty of Datura, but I’ve never taken my acquaintance any deeper. your tale really resonates for me though. it reminds me of a saying; “As long as there are slaves, there will be masters.”

I think the purpose of some spirits, or at least one purpose for most have many, is to challenge us to be masters of ourselves. though I don’t doubt that there are those who journey who would have taken Datura on as a harsh mistress. thank you for sharing, I’ve missed reading your posts.


crowstandingarrow1 wrote:
You need to check out the Nordic path. It's right up your alley.


lol! yes, it is. I’ve been an Asatruar for about 6 years now. it does fit me very well.

would you care to expand on what it means to you and what it is to lie in “crowstandingarrow”?

that’s a nice part of the world, Council, ID.

are we akin? perhaps. we surely seem to have corvids in common.
,]

it’s going well. or . . . well, it is going!
:P

frith and bliss,
Crowfuzz


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 Post subject: Re: masters and servants or friends and allies
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:41 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:26 am
Posts: 181
Location: Bavaria, Germany
crowfuzz wrote:
it seems that the archaeological type folks who've studies shamanic practices around the world have often put forth a view of the shaman as master and the spirits as servants. IMO it's a friend and ally situation, an alliance. but what is your view on this?


That depends strongly on the kind of spirits referred. There are some I never would call "servant" and some I never would call "ally" or "friend". I rather prefer friendship and allies then slaves or servants.

Yours,

Apu Kuntur


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:21 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:22 pm
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Location: Western USA
My helping spirits and allies are friends. With the spirits we encounter that are causing harm it is not always possibly to establish such a warm relationship. Also certain 'aspects' of humans can be among the most deadly and toxic. Dennis


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 Post subject: Re: masters and servants or friends and allies
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:57 am
Posts: 22
Location: London, England
crowfuzz wrote:
it seems that the archaeological type folks who've studies shamanic practices around the world have often put forth a view of the shaman as master and the spirits as servants. IMO it's a friend and ally situation, an alliance. but what is your view on this?
I'd go for friend, ally and often mentor and guide. :)

If I want a "servant" I create thoughtforms, they're controllable, disposable, and not likely to get the hump at me! :wink:

A lot of ancient societies seemed to function with a high level of inequality at their core: inequality for women, generally, across the board as well as for whole social classes, eg slaves and serfs.

Whether that's better or worse I'm not objectively equipped to say, as my own beliefs and expectations are the product of my time, but that everyday cultural format may have been tolerated and integrated by Spirit as part of the way they dealt with their shamans in those times?

There's also the repeated story where the shaman is kind of "press ganged" kicking & screaming into service for the spirits, so maybe it was a two way thing, or MAYBE that's why these days some "callings" are experienced as less savage...? :?:


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:49 pm
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Location: France
I am nobody's servant and I don't wish anyone to be mine.
So that sort of explains my approach.

Yet I know of some people who claim that their spirits, gods or whatever own them.

I know that the spirits are in my life and sort of push me to do this thing, but they don't own me.Yet refusing the call is met with some tough and not always unkind persuasive action from some of them.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:06 pm
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Location: Canada
I believe Spirits are my allies, guides, mentors and protectors.
Blessings, Small Elk


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:23 pm
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Location: Euclid, OH
smallelk wrote:
I believe Spirits are my allies, guides, mentors and protectors.
Blessings, Small Elk


Yes, this is also how I see the Spirit within all.

Crowtalker


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:59 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:20 am
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Location: Arvada, CO, USA
Friend, ally, teacher, provider. They deserve my honor and respect, but they are very giving. I know they want to help me more than I allow them---I am limited by my own beliefs and perceptions of reality---but I am working on that, and they are very patient with me.

In one case, a female spirit is my spirit lover. She has also provided for me and helped me in numerous ways. It is not so erotic as it is related to fecundity. To the creative power of the feminine aspect of nature. I know that some Ural-Altaic cultures have spirit wives? But has anyone else experienced this?

Mountain Valley Wolf


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:00 am 
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Location: Bavaria, Germany
Quote:
I know that some Ural-Altaic cultures have spirit wives? But has anyone else experienced this?


Yes - shortly after my spirits came into my conscious world by showing up within my journeys me was offered this kind of relationship, but I also got the information that my life would never be a common one after I made my choice in favor of the spirits. It took me some time of decision back then, but nowadays I am not regretting this step at all. Okay, I won't ever have a normal family or wife in this lifetime, but this is beind compensated more then enough by the unconditioned love of this spirit I am now allied with since 1992 (and maybe you even can figure out which spirit this is), the tremendous energy of manifestation only works with love and nothing else can surpass this. But it is not the cliché of love which might spring into your mind, reading this term.

Ahem, BTW: There is much erotism in this deep relationship, I can assure you of that.

Yours,

Apu Kuntur


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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:42 am 
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Location: Arvada, CO, USA
For me it is not void of any erotic nature. And there is an unconditional love that I feel, a caring and a patience... But for me it is different than a passion-filled human relationship, which I am already in with my wife. It seems to be more of a... ...I guess an act to stimulate the creative energy of the universe, or atleast the world around me?

Part of this I guess is that for me, I feel like certain things happen on spirit journeys faster than my conscious mind can process it---it is like I want to process it step by step in my conscious mind, even though at a different level I already know what happened, or what I was taught, but its like I have to work through it somehow at a conscious level where I can better remember it. Maybe this happens when I am not fully immersed in the journey----I don't know. It's sometimes hard to be alone and drum. It's too easy to be interrupted by kids, or my wife... In fact, I am usually not interrupted, but I am usually conscious of the possibility of an interruption. More often than that I try to keep the journeys at 15 minutes or so because of this and other time restrictions. This same spirit has been very helpful to me in my life----and in a way I feel guilty that I do not feel more passion, and I don't even know if I am supposed to... It's not physical in normal reality.

Mountain Valley Wolf


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:54 pm
Posts: 237
Location: Australia
Greetings,

Some walk the path of light others walk the path of dark. Those that walk the path of grey (a mix of light and dark) act as mediators to allow light and dark to see reason and understand each other. That is what brings day and night and sunrise and sunset. Without the mediators light and dark would never blend and give way to each other in turn. No enemies, all friends.

Elizabeth :D


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