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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:32 pm
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Location: Maryland
Yeah, being able to pay those fees is important. I think those people that died in that Sweat Lodge in Arizona paid $10,000 for that one way course.

I never charged more than $20 and we usually gave the money to someone that needed it.

If you are in rythym with Shamanism you will always have what you need, and you will always be where you are needed. I was a superintendent on a $20 million house for a man who had over 5000 employees. Modest pay and often hard work but every morning he and I would talk of spiritual things he couldn't discuss in his world. Thos employees had families. It was a very important time in his life and how he felt about himself and the world around him affected maybe 15,000-20,000 people. After that posts the universe bestowed some great gifts on me. That's Shamanism.

You want to meet real Shamans? Go to warzones and natural disaster sites. That's where I go to see old friends. Colombia was my favorite. Nicaragua second.

You lose your connection when Shamanism becomes your business.


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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:18 pm 
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A: RESPECT FOR THE TRAINER

I would like to just add something very important to this....

"RESPECT" has to be differentiated from "IDEALISING"

The perfect teacher, like the perfect shaman, has yet to be born - and in fact is very unlikely to enter this world via such a genetically and environmentally imperfect route!

So many people have been misled by "Gurus" of one kind and another, surely it is time we learned our lesson!

Idealizing others is a sure-fire symptom of what psychologists call "low self-esteem" and what we in shamanism would call "soul-loss". It comes from projecting disconnected parts of our own potential and our own inner-guidance system onto others.

This is where B: SELF-RESPECT comes in. A good teacher will allow us space to be the final arbiters of what is good for us i.e. the option to follow our own "gut feeling" deep wisdom.

In this regard I would really like to recommend Eckhart Tolle's audiobook "Stillness Speaks". In addition to modelling the power of "stillness" in the way he speaks, and giving excellent tips in how to access the wisdom and creativity of "stillness" within ourselves, he makes the point that a good spiritual teacher is someone who puts in touch with things that in our innermost being we already know to be true.


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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:32 pm 
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Oh, I almost forgot. If someone is always repeating other peoples stuff and telling you to read other people's books, they probably haven't learned anything on their own worth passing on to you.

Plagiarism isn't Shamanism. Before we could pass our training we had to come up with something that was unique and for proof it worked, we had to teach a new student how to do it. My first was a divination system that was weather conditions and patterns painted on stones. Not only did I have to give readings with it, I had to be able to teach that system to someone else.

I developed a system to teach remote viewing to people that had no training in anything metaphysical. I developed a system of programming inanimate objects (dome structures) with curriculums to be retrieved at any time. You can read about it on my blog.

My point is that whoever you chose should be able to prove they are accomplished in a unique way. If they aren't, the can't help you be that unique Shaman that has utilized all of your potential. You'll just be another person in the crowd repeating other peoples stuff. There's enough of that, especially here.

Get proof.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:53 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:29 am
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Location: Australia
I just wanted to thank you all for sharing your wisdom and taking the time to reply to my post. What makes it worth while is that not only will i benefit from your own personal views and perspectives on things so will everyone else who happens to read them. Of course not everyone will take them into consideration but hopefully someone will, i certainly have.

Unfortunately Australia has decided to propose implementing an internet filter which may block this site in the end. :( the filter is planned to be used on anything unsafe or inappropriate, in government terms that would mean anything that promotes individualism and anything not in the bible. :roll:

So i figured i'd say thanks just in case this gets passed and i wouldn't be able to get back here.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:05 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:35 pm
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Location: Finland
Shaman Hawk wrote:
Oh, I almost forgot. If someone is always repeating other peoples stuff and telling you to read other people's books, they probably haven't learned anything on their own worth passing on to you.

Plagiarism isn't Shamanism.



That may prove hard or nearly impossible task. I have not met single indvidual, who is not teaching that way "repeating other peoples stuff." Some are at least trying to find their own way after learning basic techniques, to find and form their own shamanic practise with the help of their spirit helpers. But those individuals are not often at teaching work.

Here in forum are few of those, who have found their unique way:
http://www.shamanportal.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=397

Hawk, hope you do not feell bad, if I borrow or plagiate your thought about Shamanism & Plagiarism and write a short article for local association of shamanism? It would be nice to have little more analysis about the matter by you, because I have not own thoughts enough :lol:

For me shamanism has nothing to do exercises, prayers or different journey methods anymore, but living connection. We have here this saying: "cannot see a forest from trees." When looked too closely only one tiny part of the whole, the whole cannot be seen anymore.

How to describe shamanism taught from a book? -Irrelevant psycic skills? Trivial wisdom to shine and show around ordinary people? Imagination exercises for New Age whackos? You name it. Quality may not be good, knowledge wrong, but if this is illusionary world is there any matter what illusions man follows, if it feels good?


Last edited by Jusma on Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:16 am 
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Re: "plagiarism"

I see that one of the books that Shaman Hawk hasn't troubled himself to read, is the dictionary! <grin>

However, his remarks have reminded me of a poem written by a former teacher of mine, which I would like to "plagiarise" [aka "quote"] here...

This poem is based on a bit of ancient Tibetan Buddhist wisdom about lifestyles - the way into specific lifestyles and the way out of them. Tibetan Buddhism, by the way, is a blend of Indian Buddhism with the indigenous Bon shamanism of Tibet.

This part of Sangharakshita's poem is about the lifestyle variously known as "Human jungle", "Dog eat Dog" or "Egocentric". Tibetan Buddhists regard it as "Living like an animal" i.e. a soul-less lifestyle. The ancient [probably pre-Buddhist] teaching about this, is that opening up to, and drawing on, the wisdom and experience of others is the only route out!


The lion, the horse, the elephant, the whale;

Bulls under yoke; rooks noisily debating;

Panthers at play, and goldfish coruscating;

Snake swallowing frog; thrush picking off the snail;

Bird, beast and fish, the female and the male, –

In flocks, in herds, in shoals and schools relating, –

Hunters and hunted, – eating, sleeping, mating, –

Something they lack. By wood, hill, stream, and dale,

The Dark Blue Buddha shows an open book,

Jewel-charactered on leaves of burnished gold.

Behold the treasure of communication, – Treasure of knowledge, – ne’er to be forsook:

Deeds of great heroes, thoughts of sages old, Bequeathed to man’s remotest generation!


-------------


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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:07 am 
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........................


Last edited by Jusma on Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:32 pm
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Location: Maryland
Looks like Mike is even running out of other people's material to post. Can't imagine what relevance that had.

Jusma, you're right that you need to learn basic energy principles to get started. I will repeat things my Great Uncles and Aunts taught me and of course you will hear things along the way that are out of your system that make sense, so you integrate them and practice the virtue of mutability.

The wheel won't be reinvented but there will always be better wheels to keep up with the times. (There are still a lot of people in Shamanism that will try to convince you the stone wheel is the best. ) There is a fine line between tradition and dogma.

In the realm of the newer learning you should always look for proof. I never teach anything I can't prove and the exercises I start people with prove my system works. From the first day I work towards that person being unique in their skills and towards them being more proficient than I.

I found than in asking the student questions about the lessons you can get them to answer in a way that describes their natural talents and shows the direction you should take them.

Teaching isn't always telling.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking to become a shaman.
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:07 am 
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Take your time. I started my apprenticeship in United States in 1964. If I were to say there was a universal way it can be found as the similarities in all Shamanic systems. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Looking to become a shaman.
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:52 am 
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Hydrassas wrote:
Hi there, i'm new to the forum. I've been interested in shamanism for a while but i don't know where to begin... I've dabbled in magick and whatnot in the past much to my regret and i want to learn how to do it properly.


Shaman do not dabble in magick. That is for sorcerers. Sorcerers seek to manipulate and control the physical with rituals, magick and so on. Shamanism is not something you learn how to do. The spirits choose you. If they do not think you would make a suitable shaman they will not contact you. Take all the classes you want but none of those classes will make the spirits choose you. They see you all day, every day. They know your heart and your soul. I believe it is power you seek and not shamanism. That is why the spirits do not choose you. They know your heart is not on the right path to shamanism. To be Shaman is to serve. To sacrifice yourself for the good of mankind and to be willing to face death unafraid. If you truly wish to go down this path start by helping others and give everything of yourself. If it is with true intention, someday the spirits may find you worthy.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking to become a shaman.
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:50 pm 
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I myself am only at the starting point of my shamanic calling. I have much to learn, and must fix a lot of unbalance in my own life before I can continue.

Looking through this thread has been rather insightful, but left me with one rather glaring question:

What would Shamanic Cereal taste like?


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 Post subject: Re: Looking to become a shaman.
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:56 pm 
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Location: Maryland
I think Shamanic Cereal might smell like a Sweat Lodge towel left out for a couple days, look like nuggets in the campfire (just as crunchy) and taste like a combination of dirt, blood and sweat. Kind of a spiritual granola that could be heated or served cold with witch's milk and not just for breakfast anymore.
Stay tuned for my Shamanic cookie recipe.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking to become a shaman.
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:28 pm 
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1: Look into your family history and use your lineage to uncover where in your culture people practiced spirituality (ie, are you descent from Celts, West Africans?) and start there.

2: If someone is going to charge you for lessons/teachings, run in the other direction

3: quit drinking (and/or) doing drugs.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking to become a shaman.
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:42 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
I agree that you can't choose to be a shaman~ You can be willing, and prepare yourself, and apprentice under good teachers, but in the end, the lineage chooses you if you are ready. You will tested for a long time, harder and harder (with less instruction) as you go along. If it is something you suspect is happening, but you aren't sure, you can put your strong intent out to the lineage/universe/guides, and ask to be shown, ask to be tested. Say that you want to be shown whether you are called to this path or not. They will test you, and you will get a definite answer. Human teachers will show up, too (and the opportunity to work with a teacher, though you will have to be willing to pay them in fair reciprocity).

Educate yourself as much as you can, and put your intention forth as clearly as you can. The answers will come. You might just be called to clarify and heal your own path but not be a shaman. Or you might have the gifts of a shaman and are being called to hone and use them in a life of service. Not everyone on a spiritual path is born to be a shaman, but everyone is born to be of vital service in some way. There are so many roles to be filled, and all of them are needed, not just shamans.

Just be in integrity at every step, and keep listening and asking. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Looking to become a shaman.
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:32 pm
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Location: Maryland
Charging for or accepting an exchange has always been part of the Shamanic system. In the earlier days the apprentice, "client" or whomever would bring gifts of food, firewood, give help in the form of labor around the Shaman's dwelling or help said Shaman in community service. Those same exchanges still apply. I did them for my apprenticeship and I have people do that with me now. I actually prefer those exchanges but sometimes they just give me pieces of green paper with dead guys painted on them.
Run the other way when the exchange rate makes you back up, gasp or leaves you with an uncomfortable feeling.


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