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 Post subject: Longing for lineage
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:49 pm 
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Location: Finland
Thanks for Slow Thunder and Shaman Cougar provoking thought worst thing happened at shamanism - Michael Harner.

It was about ten years ago, when I had my first weekendcourse, basic shamanism workshop, where I learned method of journey. It was Michael Harner's method and very important at the time. This conversation has been already taken 'is learning from indeginous shamans essential?'

Even that basic course was very important at the time, I started to wonder more about the essence of shamanism. There are very many levels of teachers, both indegious and western. What do people learn from weekendcourses? At first they receive connection to their helpers, poweranimals and upperworld teachers, they get knowledge of shamanism worldwide and it's history, how to perform spirit call or call the four directions. They receive knowledge combined from many different tradition by Michael Harner. At the basic workshop I learned a greta deal, how they do things in other cultures but nothing of my own finnish tradition.

...And to what end? I am eclectic individual. Individual.
Individual of few tricks, but no depth of heart. And by that I mean, I have not been thaught how to serve, I can heal, but years of apprentice gives of course certain attitude or viewpoint how to serve others. I have skills or know tehniques how to contact spirits and ask quidance, but it ends there.

I would like to carry a lineage, do what my fathers have done before and what people could do after me. To carry cultural meaning of existence, to carry mythological treasures where we came from, what we do, what is our purpose here.... To invoke togetherness under Ursa Major, rebirth the roots and by that strenghten confidence, feelings of security and respect for ancestors. Instead of this intellectual, individual separiation of scientific world. (if I ever do a workshop of shamanism, this would be the main theme, but maybe not at workshop, but through meditation and yoga classes I already run ...maybe someday a way figures out).

People who knew here are long dead, and only spirits can teach me. :cry:


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:58 pm
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Location: Central Texas, USA
You remind me of one of the question we all ask ourselves at one point or another:
- How best can I serve?.....


Lineage is an interesting attachment:
= Martial Artists like to have it
= Reiki Masters practically insist upon it
= Spiritual Path Followers like to know where they have been and who has been important in their lives


We like to say something is in our blood, as if we are special due to who we were born to, how we were raised as children, or who quickened us. I think we are special when we acknowledge our talents, grow our skills, and live our life in integrity.

How best can I serve?
How best can I serve?
How best can I serve?

Interesting question


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 Post subject: Re: Longing for lineage
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:16 pm
Posts: 260
Location: NW UK
Jusma wrote:
I would like to carry a lineage, do what my fathers have done before and what people could do after me. To carry cultural meaning of existence, to carry mythological treasures where we came from, what we do, what is our purpose here.... To invoke togetherness under Ursa Major, rebirth the roots and by that strenghten confidence, feelings of security and respect for ancestors. Instead of this intellectual, individual separiation of scientific world. (if I ever do a workshop of shamanism, this would be the main theme, but maybe not at workshop, but through meditation and yoga classes I already run ...maybe someday a way figures out).

People who knew here are long dead, and only spirits can teach me. :cry:


Oh Jusma - join the club!

At least you have the basic tools to explore further, Michael Harner helped you with that.

Your Finnish history is rich in shamanic culture but, like British and Celtic mystical beliefs, they are buried under centuries of Christian dogma, more so than Finnish beliefs I think. Yet we can still connect if our ancestors wish to work with us.

For me, it has been a case of coupling academic learning of myths and history with inner journeying and learning from my teacher. I'm not there yet, perhaps I never really will be but I keep trying.

There are still people working in the Saami spiritual (Noaide) tradition and artists like Marie Boine continue to push forward the interests of the Saami people through music. Perhaps the Saami Council could help:

http://www.saamicouncil.net/?deptid=1113

Some interesting information in this book 'Kalevala mythology By Juha Pentikäinen, Ritva Poom' here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=NwCDdS ... t&resnum=9

If it were me, I would be planning to travel (a literal journey) to one or more of the Finnish/Saami sacred sites such as: http://heninen.net/seid/english.htm to feel, seek, ask and contact the ancestors.


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 Post Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:41 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:35 pm
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Location: Finland
Thanks trying to comfort me. I have done the work many years and still feel that way. There are many lessons found at old sacred sites. I tried to revive them about two years, visiting rock paintings and sacrifial stones.

So, I do not put much weight on academic theories how things were here, because facts are missing. Academics, like Pentikäinen just debate themselves how things could have been and trying to convince others with links into siberian shamanism and saami shamanism to make room their own viewpoints, which are still hypotical possibilities at best. What I did learn about these sites just feeling them can never be acquired through reason.

Interesting thing that I contacted with a english friend a president of Saami parlament, and my friend was offering help to retrieve old drums taken from Lappland into British museum, there was no reaction. Just not interested. Even there is not a single one at whole part of finnish side of Lappland, and maybe ten at British museum and more in France and big museums of other countries. Hope their leaders also get interested in their own culture someday. My friend was studying contemporay religions, or somthing, which concerned spiritual or religious beliefs and was also on shamanistic path. Studies at university and maintaining creativity, freedom of thought were not easy. So, best wishes for attempts coupling them.

Next morning after earlier writing, when I took a walk at near forest cuckoo started to sing. It reminded me, that this Harner method and introduction into shamanim have been very good base/soil to grow, and someday you notice you are just something else, do not fit into this category anymore.

Saying that helped to leave certain things behind.

And the work is going on. I had dreams coming up one a year basis and at one of them was shown a book about finnish shamanism, written by a living shaman, of course the book exists only at ether. :)
Also one friend saw a vision, where she was a bear and held human skull in her hands. She formed the rest of the bones and flesh into full human being and walked through lands together until time came to separate ways. That vision was very similar in spirit with old legends how Bear is a king here, and how finnish runepoems praises the bear spirit.

I remember one vision, where teaching was that strong longing may feel like sorrow, but the energy there may find its way and do something good in the end.. Hopefully this comforts others with strong longing. Nice to join this club!


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 Post Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:45 pm 
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Location: NW UK
I've been discussing something similar with people on another forum, how difficult it is to rediscover or reconnect to ones spiritual and particularly shamanic roots when they don't seem to be obviously there. The problems with people trying to resurrect a long forgotten way of working and the use of the word 'Shaman' when tagged onto inappropriate systems which actually seem to undermine the attempts to move forward.

I've started to think that those of us struggling to reconnect to our shamanic roots may need to re-think our approach and start again with a new or fresh system where we simply work in the way our spirits ask us to. In this way, we can still call upon the wisdom of our ancestors, learn about the new ways to honour spirit which are more appropriate to our contemporary life. We can find new and more appropriate ways to heal and work with those around us and all this based upon the basic foundations (ie without the superstitions) of our cultural heritage.

Sometimes, when I try and try to do something but I am unable to make any headway, there is usually a good reason and by being forced to find a new route around the problem, I sometimes see the real reason I couldn't just go forward by the obvious route in the first place.

If Great Spirit intended for shamanic practice to survive intact in every area, then I think it would have done. Perhaps instead of this issue being a problem, it is actually a blessing in disguise which we simply need to grasp and move forward with.

Perhaps we have to be brave enough to be the ancestors that our great, great, great grandchildren will be glad we were?


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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:29 am 
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Location: Finland
Yep, I have grown to think similar way. There is no way back, and maybe it is better to rediscover the wheel again in a form that suits best this time, place, culture and people than trying to turn clock backwards in vain.
I believe it is possible by just sitting outdoors find peace and healing, just the way our forefathrs have done. many times I have been noticed by spirits that the form how we respect ancestors is not so important, importants is that we do so and remember them.
One friend spend three years alone at a cabin outdoors like a hermit and started to see forestspirits and commucate with them. This without any courses or education into matter. I believe very much, that communication was like that in Finland between forestspirits and people, it was raised naturally by solitude and strong bonding into earth. Contacts with fairies were more common. Also the powers for healing grew up naturally. Like my healing with energy started. I was doing a bit massage for my friend, when I noticed my hands to feel different, warmer and a like magnetic. I stopped doing massage and just let the energy flow, and my friend noticed it also. That happened 1999 at near peak of Kilimazaro.

Also, when speaking about lineage I do not mean only method of healing, but longing for chain of life. To see my place among ancestor fire, ancestor reindeer, ancestor bear... and so on. Belonging into this chain is my shamanic goal and the wisdom of my forefathers could really help, but maybe that work is needed to be done by oneself anyway.

So, I wish all the courage, wisdom and patience for all to figure out the wheel again, which gives all that is needed, abundance, happiness, togetherness.
Hmmm... now I remember old finnish tale about Sampo, which gave to its owner all the bread, salt and gold needed. Maybe I start joyrneywork about that, and what are the things we lack most at this time. Bread, salt and gold we have enough here.


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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:55 pm 
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Your friend who spent time alone in the forest sounds like they found the truest connection. Its no coincidence that other spiritual systems use silence, meditation and solitude to really connect and find new levels of consciousness.

Have you ever done any work with Jonathan Horowitz? http://www.shamanism.dk/

I think I know what you mean when you say:

Quote:
longing for chain of life. To see my place among ancestor fire, ancestor reindeer, ancestor bear... and so on


This connection, lineage is important. It is where much of our power flows from, through our ancestors to the next generation after us and on down the line. They show us how to work and help us in many ways.

The journeying to the story of Sampo is a wonderful idea. What we need now is so very different to what was ideal back then but in a strange way, its still the same. 3 things (3 the number of creativeness), Gold - wealth or the Sun (God), Bread, sustenance both physical and spiritual, salt - a physical and metaphysical cleanser.

Sounds like a superb start to discover your own place in the lineage of your people.


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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:58 pm 
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Location: Finland
Hi again!
No, I am not worked wih Jonathan, but he was one who also helped to establish finnish association of shamanic studies about 1994 or so. And my time with association started about 2000. There was many years with no contact to him, and when we tried to invite him again to Finland, it never worked. We also tried to invite his former wife Annette Höst, and also it did not work out, there was always something. We also tried Ailo Gaup, Norwegian, too busy. Then we tried one Tuvan shaman to keep workshop, but then we heard rumors about arrogance and sexual abuse, so we forgot the man.
So, there is always something coming into way, when we try invite somebody. So our association have very much developed trust on what we have here already. And I like it. So I can see similarities with your attempts to push the way. Some wise in this forum described the way waited to be found or it found him. It seems quite many have made the same conclusion. Spirits help us not to select the wrong way. And better ways to move forward will show, if we just let.

Thank you forest child your insights, those really helped. And like we say here: the forest answers like we shout. Nice to be heard, expesially by likeminded.


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 Post Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:34 pm 
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Thats interesting. I've met Annette last year and my teacher is one of Jonathan's first pupils (Jane Shutt). I look forward to meeting Jonathan this year at the SSP conference in Dorset (UK). He is a busy man I guess.

I don't know Allo Gaup. Sorry.

Again, today I have been shown new things, new ways to see the world and our shamanic work within it. Languages and cultures are being lost at an alarming rate, the incredible depth of knowledge which dies with them is deplorable.

We need to find our connection to everything again, and teach future generations new stories which will let them grow into that connection rather than the greed and disconnected false power that we teach them now through tv, music and other media. Our stories need to change. For me, thats something I need to work on.

http://blog.beliefnet.com/freshliving/2 ... -ever.html

I found this incredibly moving.

I've sent you a pm.


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