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 Post subject: Is there a God?
 Post Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 11:39 am
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Location: USA
Hello all,

In your individual shamanic practices from the different backgrounds is there a Deity to be worshiped? Does God exist? If so how do we know?

Thank you in advance!
-juan


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 Post Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:46 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:27 pm
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Location: Cedar Park, TX 78613
The Holy Spirit is the hand and breath of god,the name is not important,the spirit in all things,God is as we are,there are things that have happened in my life that make it clear to me,people will try to sell you god and you might pay for a while but when it comes down to it you either know or you dont,there are a thousand names for it,a thousand wars because of interpretation issues,it comes down to respect,if you have no self respect how can you respect others,God and the Holy spirit made this place and all in it,we are connected to all things through them,we were given a paradise with unlimited potential,all of our problems were created by us,and they'll have to be solved by us,whether or not you choose to worship god by any name or show respect to the spirit is part of the responsibility that comes from being given the gift of life,its not a rule,its a preference,if none of us believe it doesnt diminish the gift,if your teenage son or daughter got up one day and decided not to listen to you or believe ion you,what are you going to do,you raised them from the beautiful children that they were,looking in to their eyes when they were born seeing god looking back at you,eventually you'll have to let go and let them have their mistakes,after all,if you kill them they wont learn nothing,and in the end all things return to the lord.


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 Post Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 6:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 11:39 am
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Location: USA
Hello Anthony,

Thanks again for answering me. You seem to be the only person on the forum that pays attention to me lol. So, we dont need to be "saved" by a particular dogma right? Like how a christian says you must accept christ died for you and a muslim will say that you must Believe in Allah, the prophet muhammad, and the Quran in order to be saved.

I am trying to be religiousless in the sense of not having a particular religion. I am trying to perhaps work with shamanic practices and perhaps make shamanism my way of life possibly. But I am just trying to get over the fear that I have to be part of a particular religion in order to be saved.

If that makes sense. This seems like a problem in many societies where people grow up being taught that you have to have a belief in certain concepts to be saved. Cant we all be saved through simply compassion? Cant a buddhist who doesnt believe in God still be saved?

-juan


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 Post Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 4:50 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:35 pm
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Location: Finland
What is faith? There is a difference in believing and knowing. There are a great number of people, who have formed their worldview as others has told it should be or the book tolds. That is faith, beleiving what is written or other people tell you, what to believe.

Knowing is diffrent, you perceive the world, and by your own perception and experience form your own worldview believing in your truth just before your own eyes, under your feet, above your head. When you start to understand creation and how things work, awareness of great spirit may raise up, or may not. But if it raises, then your religion is based on understanding and knowing from your own experience.

Those who tell you, that you'lle burn forever in hell, if you do not believe in their god - Do you think that they really can provide heaven? If there is just this moment, heaven and hell are just now.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 8:15 am 
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Location: USA
Thank you Jusma. So perhaps I should have no beliefs while I am seeking? I may learn if there is a God or High Spirit through journeying and direct experience of meditation etc?

thanks!
-juan


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 8:47 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:42 am
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Location: Alexandria, Virginia USA
Spiritualseeker wrote:
...But I am just trying to get over the fear that I have to be part of a particular religion in order to be saved...

What do you want to be saved from? I think that is more the question to be addressed.

There certainly is a greater power than us. And no matter what you call it-him-her-they, many people seek the comfort in believing that SOMEBODY is in charge. And here is the crux of the problem: responsibility. Do you want to be saved from the responsibility of what your actions and behaviors have set in motion?

You do not have to be part of any religion to be saved. You need to recognize what you want to be saved from, and take the responsibility for saving yourself. And that can be very scary indeed.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:59 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:35 pm
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Location: Finland
Spiritualseeker wrote:
Thank you Jusma. So perhaps I should have no beliefs while I am seeking? I may learn if there is a God or High Spirit through journeying and direct experience of meditation etc?

thanks!
-juan


Yep!


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 11:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:27 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Cedar Park, TX 78613
For years religion was used as a cornerstone for conquest,It has been tainted,a way to take advantage of someone that you have no respect for but they have something that you want,a way to galvanise a community against something that said religion is against,organized religion has been a tool for controlling the population for thousands of years,a tool,god has been lost,how can we honestly have faith in these,how many civilizations have been lost because of a difference of opinion,another tool to be used to get what some people want,a charismatic way to move people to your view,many people believe that the earth is something to be used until we get to heaven or until heaven comes to us,this lack of respect for creation itself is the problem,we are a part of creation so this is just the lack of self respect,of course the world doesnt revolve around us,a way for one group of people to lift themselves above the rest,to make them think that they are humanities saviors,when actually its just the little god in us trying to dominate the world around us,a condition of civilization,a set of rules to best govern a large population,not a bad thing,but it does kinda put the cart before the horse,it is also inevitable,so a few of us try to hang on and pass down the few wisdoms that remain,as far as being saved,you were saved the day that you were born,god will never give you up ever,so you believe what gives you comfort and live your life and love all you can,its not gods job to jump in and rescue us every time things dont work out,if there were no bad times you wouldnt miss the good times,the decisions you make in the face of adversity are what defines who we are,lets say you are a serial killer and have killed 80 people,the 80 people who died have lived their lives and hes taken them back home ,god isnt judging the serial killer ,he's judging how we deal with the serial killer,none of us are judged,when you give someone a gift do you wait to judge how they enjoy it,no,you may be disapointed in how they take care of the gift and the fact that some disgard it completely but it is their gift and their responsibility,and the angels look down in jealousy and wonder and help where they can,many religions are simply a way to escape this responsibility,these are my opinions for better or worse,so believe in something.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:12 am
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Location: Canada
Most formal religions have some version of the following: believe in our way, it is the right and only way to God, salvation etc. This line is little more than power/control seeking nonsense. I noted Juan that you are 23. If you were raised in one of those religions (as many of us were), it takes a while to shake their powerful brain-washing about salvation and damnation and all that rot.

So, despite that, is there a god almighty of some kind? My personal answer is yes, though I will not try to define it in any way. The best argument I know of in its favor is that so many people over thousands of years, including our times, have sensed/experienced a powerful mind inhabiting/creating the universe - ie the mystical experience. The mystical experience, acording to what I have read, is surprisingly similar through the millenia and across different cultures. There are many pathways to this experience. It is not reserved for an elite.

This intensely private spiritual experience is in fact the source of religions. Those who have had it dress up their experience in the language of their culture and their times. Some may use it, or did use it, to create rules and gain power over others. Others don't do that, but simply live their quiet lives with a sense of awe.

In our times, I don't think we need formal religions telling us what to believe, giving us rules to live by (or else!), and generally creating the horrible messes these formal religions have created.

I sincerely hope that we are moving beyond those kinds of rules towards accepting greater personal responsibility for both our beliefs and our actions.

Chris


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 12:55 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:35 pm
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Location: Finland
So little more about theological questions beside is god real? Is everything manifestation of god as said in so many philosophies? If it is, is god evenly divided on everything? Do you have more god than I, do this table have more god than that table? Most religions tell, that everything that is, is creation of god, scinetists can tell everything is formed of energy, this energy has two forms: vawes (light) and particles, which have different lenght of vawe or density of particles.

There is told that god is light, the movement behind everything we see.

We know, that certain items or places feel better than other, our powerplaces and items. Do they consist more god than other's? Or is it just the quality of radiation? We have items, places and persons of diffrent radiation, which we may feel or experience positive or negative, our experience may vary how our own systems reacts, are we opposite to it or near the same. Same attratcs the same.

If god is absolut and behind everything, it is absurd thought to think god is not here or only a little, then god is not absolut.

In my beliefsystem I collect information from many sources and melt them with the experinces I have and ponder, which makes sense, does it feel good and right. Also being ready to change, when new information comes throught mediation or journeys.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 11:39 am
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Hello all,


Thank you all for the wonderful responses. It has lead me to reflect. Perhaps I dont know if there is a Deity because I have not experienced the Deity and even if I have not experienced the Deity doesnt mean I should reject the deity. Direct experience and openmindedness seems key. I will try to stay present with whatever arises.

I look foward to more feed back if anyone wants to add anything.


-juan


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:11 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:50 am
Posts: 44
Location: Pennsylavania
God is everywhere and in everything. Trying to compartmentalize god puts mans limits. I guess the best thing is there are aspects in which you can better focus on parts of the creator easier than others. The wind, the trees, the directions the universe.

God exists inside of you too. How we honor the IS, and what we do with it, is up to us. Make it worth it.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:14 pm 
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Location: London UK
New to this site, I do appreciate the comments made by others in response to this question... we do find ourselves in a difficult situation in regards to that particular question... I will let you definitively when I die... I do agree that god is certainly something that can be read about however, but it is not a book... there are many dimensions that I am personally aware of having over the course of the last two years I stumbled quite accidently across this... i guess many religions equate god being an entity that is love without terms and conditions an altruistic love you may say... when i refer to the "lords prayer" it quite clearly says that earth is in heaven... but apparently it doesn't quite look like heaven to me for some people anyway... i wonder quite what went wrong... ah well if all those people who use books to create hatred or incite hatred on battlefields in others should personally go to a war zone i think and see how long they survive fighting a war with a silly book... not long with those fast bullety guns and grenades I presume... those books don't make a good defense of anything but clearly show that perhaps the roman empire merely diversified into mass religion as a form of control and of course these books really are quite a weapon of mass destruction in their own right/ but a double edged sword... alot of healers and indigenous people have the catholics and christians to thank for the destruction of their lives familes culture and way of life... as for god i am sure that plans are afoot to stop people voting for world war three, since they the masses are able to vote in and be taken in by the same old lies all the time... sorry if i seem a little cynical on here but i try to reflect reality of the situation as best as i can... maybe god is ireally a combination of all of us learning to live in harmony... when we finally reach that aim then we will have actualised... at least we can be thankful that in the mire and sadness and joy and excitement of the world that we are not living in a boring world...


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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:20 pm 
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Location: London UK
jesus and mohammed must get awful headaches from millions of people asking them for their spiritual help... would send anyone a little bit mad if you ask me... rofl


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:06 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:46 pm
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while reading this thread which is some good stuff, these words came through >> only those who listen with their hearts can truly understand...


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