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Is Learning from indigenous shamans essential?
Yes 20%  20%  [ 32 ]
No 80%  80%  [ 128 ]
Total votes : 160
 
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 Post subject: Re: Is Learning from indigenous shamans essential?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:39 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Australia. East side. On the coast.
We all come from the same Earth Mother and Heaven Father. So it would stand to reason that anyone can know that everything is connected. I don't know that everyone should be a shaman though.

I have done a one day of two day course with a native American Indian Shaman and this is what has propelled me onto the shamanic journey.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Learning from indigenous shamans essential?
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:40 pm
Posts: 16
Learn from the indigenous plants, stones, trees, and land spirits...
The teachers are all around us..
The plants and spirits of every country are crying out to be worked with


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 Post subject: Re: Is Learning from indigenous shamans essential?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:26 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Mexico
No necessary...
More important to my opinion is, to be congruent in your words and actions.

One might be learning, but if not applying, what difference do we make?
It's a daily task, a great responsability and requieres lots of insight to maintain the Path of the Shaman.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Learning from indigenous shamans essential?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:14 pm
Posts: 4
I cannot really work with a human teacher, the equivelant of the old guy in the hut, teaching you his tricks. But I can go to the sources and to the Spirits, as well as to the old Witch Gods


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 Post subject: Re: Is Learning from indigenous shamans essential?
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:35 pm
Posts: 30
I don't believe that someone has to learn from Shamans that have ancient knowledge passed down to them from their ancestors. This is the wonderful thing about shamanism, a person can learn on their own. I am still amazed that even after three years of studying shamanism I am confounded by the wisdom and the benevolents of the spirits that I have communed with. I have focused my study of shamanism on the Native American spirits of the Rocky Mountains.

I have also met some shamans that learned everything they know from the spirit world, however, there are some ancient teachings and matters that can only be learned by a shaman that was called to shamanism through their tribe or family. Their elders or family members passed secrets to them that neither I or anyone else will know. But I still think it is possible to be very adept in shamanism without the aide of a teacher as the nature spirits are benevolent and they don't mind teaching anyone that seeks them out.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Learning from indigenous shamans essential?
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:36 am
Posts: 7
eagle1 wrote:
I read on this board that many believe that regular folks can't be shamans unless they are born to a 3rd world country and study with indigenous shamans.

What do you think?

Please vote and explain why.

eagle1


Not true, although for some reason Native Americans and indigenous people seem to have a higher natural ability. It may be because they live closer to nature and away from modernity that it is easier and more likely that there will be a higher incidence. The other reason may be tribal culture and the higher chance of starvation. It is not possible to cross into that realm without bringing one's self closer to death via self deprivation, self imposed deprivation, accident, illness or injury or N.D.E.s The world of spirits does not exist in the living world.

The lesser forms of altered states that are not so dangerous require only isolation from everything, and the enhancement of visions via things such as ayahuesca, peyote or similar things.

Modern Shamans in a modern world are less likely to go down these roads and may use trance via music, drumming or meditation. There's no right way or wrong way but the latter is far safer for most concerned for to be a Shaman of the former is to risk one's life and no one in there right mind would teach a class or apprentice someone in the Modern World in this way.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Learning from indigenous shamans essential?
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:45 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:29 am
Posts: 22
My first time posting here, and I don't usually use forums... but this place seems nice.

Shamanism comes from the spirits of Nature, doesn't it? It can never belong to any culture, as it comes from Nature. Wild animals have their own medicine and their own dreaming, much like a shaman's, that come naturally to them without training or trial. Finding the spirits is what matters, not how many years of training you've done with which renowned practitioner. In these troubled times, many need guidance to reach the shamanic path, but so long as they reach it safely and without causing harm, does it matter what pedigree they carry?


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 Post subject: Re: Is Learning from indigenous shamans essential?
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:37 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:51 am
Posts: 32
yes, it is essential for your integrity and the integrity of the teachings


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 Post subject: Re: Is Learning from indigenous shamans essential?
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:51 am
Posts: 32
Studying under a authentic shaman is essential. Many ceremonies are so powerful they can really hurt you if you do them in an incorrect way according to tradition and protocol. Just look at James Arthur Ray's sweat lodge where three people died!

Ceremony must follow the proper protocol and be done "in a good way".

Also, if you approach an shaman and they offer to teach you for $$$$ then run in the other direction. Payment is usually made through work contributions to ceremony like cutting the wood for a Sacred Fire.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Learning from indigenous shamans essential?
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:18 pm
Posts: 20
i sense elitism. those of you who have studied under an indigenous shaman, bravo, now step aside and shut up.

the various branches of shamanism disagree on all kinds of content and context, so which shamanic tradition should i choose? how many indigenous shaman are left? and how many of those are willing to train westerners? we are therefor left with very few "legitimate" shaman, aren't we. great. for those of us who believe (know...belief is for pussies) that shamanism is necessary for continued human survival, that pretty much damns us all. great.

true, practicing under a shaman of experience is preferred, but we are up against the wall. i would not mind a boy scout practicing cpr on me if i drown when a doctor is unavailable.

shamanism found me. i don't know if it was born in or grew into me or what, but i don't have the means to study under an indigenous sage, and the spirits aren't willing to let me slack off due to that fact. what i am left with is books, the internet and tons of experimentation.

i vote no on the word "essential." shaman are not made or taught. good shaman, or effective shaman, maybe.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Learning from indigenous shamans essential?
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:23 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:51 am
Posts: 32
sonoffox,

I would consider working on your anger and resentment -- considering the tone and use of language in your post. There was no need to get vulgar with your language with the pu**y word, either.

In my opinion, you have brought your negative crap into this spiritual discussion.

In the future, please do not be so aggressive with your language when you post on here, as I feel it is not very spiritual.

Surely, you can find other words than telling people on here to "shut up" and can express what you mean in a new, more constructive post since what you have to say is as valid as anyone else.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Learning from indigenous shamans essential?
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:51 am
Posts: 32
And I will state again.

You may refer to yourself as a Westerner. But you came from somewhere. You have People and a lineage and heritage somewhere in the world. You are Indigenous to somewhere.

Even if you are Anglo-Saxon, you have people and a lineage (for example, Celt of Goth) so it is up to you, in my opinion, to do the hard work to uncover that lineage.

From this point, from where ever you are Indigenous to, if you wish to learn that cultural and contextual shamanic practice, all the power to you.

It may seem easier to some people to jump into another tradition as opposed to doing the hard work - historical, cultural, genealogical - to discover your roots, but you are actually doing a world a disservice by not honouring and bringing your own traditions to light and thus, robbing the world of that knowledge base.

It’s worth that effort. You are Indigenous to somewhere, you have your own traditions. Learn them in their own right.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Learning from indigenous shamans essential?
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:18 pm
Posts: 20
North.

sorry...it was meant to be sarcastic. but i don't like the idea that shaman are saints either. i like a heated discussion. all the niceties are bologna...though a wink smiley should have gone next to "shut up"...sorry about that.

however, judging me on my vocabulary is elitist par excellence. i use vernacular. why? because it is inviting. people i know...people who would be in my tribe...would like the way i talk. i am not willing to edit my manner to suit your sensibilities.

hey wait a minute...you joined july 16th? you aren't a moderator? wtf, dude? why does every shaman expect authority even amongst their peers. you chill. don't like my posts, don't read them.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Learning from indigenous shamans essential?
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:18 pm
Posts: 20
spiritual does not equal good. there are evil spirits, there are wicked shaman. sainthood is a myth. pretending to be "holier than thou" is a great way to alienate people (unless you are a great liar.) saying that a spiritual discussion shouldn't use words that were deemed "offensive" by the culture that tried to kill shamanism is about as silly as using science to explain the spirit world. i know what spirits haunt me, and many of them are mischievous. i have no problem with that. they add spice to my life.

north, you should check your tone. i disagree with you on everything you have written so far...we are different therefor, and i am not to be "educated" to your thinking. want to argue? fine. but you do not know me to talk down to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Learning from indigenous shamans essential?
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:51 am
Posts: 32
In my tradition, I was taught that one should walk and carry one self each day as if they were in ceremony. This is the way of the ogichidaa kwe. I can only speak from that perspective.

If you wish to carry yourself with those kinds of words to express who you are, so be it. But be sure, words have power and you are expressing what you are inside.

And as a woman, I happen to find the Pu**y word offensive.


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