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 Post subject: I have questions
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:22 am 
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Personally I do not believe in the concept of heaven and hell in a sense of planes of existence as it is described in the religions. But I wonder has anyone seen such places on their shamanic journeys? What do your experiences tell you? I have heard one story from a friend that she met a guy who has seen heaven and hell from astral projection, my guess is that he saw lowerworld and upperworld.
According to my research a human can only be reborn as a human and only if one chooses to, however I have no experiental knowledge regarding this and I do not wish to imply any dogmas.


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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:26 am 
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And also according to my understanding, after death we go to the lowerworld and we can be reborn as a human if we choose to.


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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:38 am 
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You raise interesting questions smokey...Personally in my journeys to the lower world I have not seen a place of brimstone, fire and a man with a pitchfork. I have met very distant ancestors in the lower world. I have received gifts from the lower world...Of which I cannot tell you. But I do not believe it is an evil place as portrayed by christian/catholic beliefs. I'm sorry I cannot fully answer your question, I've just never been asked this before, LOL.


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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:35 pm 
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Thanks walkthepath.


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 Post Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:06 am 
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I had the same question. thanks for the answer


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 Post subject: Life After death
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:37 am 
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Do you have any proofs about "the Life after death we go to the lowerworld and we can be reborn as a human if we choose to". If have please share.


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 Post subject: Re: Life After death
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:15 am 
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gertrugehoy wrote:
Do you have any proofs about "the Life after death we go to the lowerworld and we can be reborn as a human if we choose to". If have please share.

Ross Heaven " The fake shaman " :x


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 Post subject: Re: I have questions
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:39 pm 
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Actually I had deeper research. And I advise you read Micheal Newton's book - "Journey of the souls" and Tony Samara's - "Shaman's Wisdom".

Here is an excerpt from Tony's book:
"In the Andes, West is the direction where the shaman can experience
illumination, that is the letting go of fear and the ideas
that prevent him from being connected to the Great Spirit. In
this direction, death is often experienced on a level both concrete
and symbolic. The rebirth takes place when one feels unity
within oneself and when this unity goes beyond the physical and
spiritual fears of separation and death. Shamans often do exercises
that directly bind them to the energy of the sun and this helps
them to go beyond death, or to be as One with the Great Spirit.

The healing Ceremonies normally take place in sacred spaces
with thermal sources. The vapors are generally used to heat the
body, particularly the blood, to allow transformation to occur.
In other cultures, people used thermal or sacred water in places
of power to help the body to transform through heat. The transformation
of the thermal water into vapor was a way of helping
the body to remember the transformation that takes place on the
different and deeper levels of oneself. The sweat lodges of North
American Indians and other cultures were also very important,
not simply to detoxify the body but also to maintain a connection
with the Great Spirit.
Very often in the Huachuma tradition, during a ceremony the
shaman will place alcohol on the mesa and light a symbolic fire.
(This would be at around three in the morning.) All of the elements
of the mesa receive the energy of the fire, which gives more
power to the work carried out in the Ceremony. The fire symbolically
burns negativities and fears, and magically transforms
human limitations. The shaman could also create a symbolic obstacle,
like a hole in the ground in which he places objects that
will be burnt. They represent the fear that holds people back, a
fear felt by everybody. After lighting the fire, the shaman asks the
participants to jump over or walk on this obstacle. The symbolism
of this act is that the person goes beyond the fears that block
him and whose existence he was previously unaware of.
In the direction West, it is possible to understand that at the
time of death, the soul of the person journeys to an area of the
Universe that is full of stars and remains there until it is time to
return and reappear in a new incarnation. When we work in this
direction we confront our deepest fears and it is wise to remember
that if we do not work with them harmoniously this time, we
confront them again in our next incarnation."

And Michael's book is about hypnotic past life regressions, but there is more than that to it, as it tells what happens after the death of the body.

As you can see all proof for this comes from experiental knowledge(which I consider the most valid proof).


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 Post subject: Re: I have questions
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:29 pm 
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Location: Sweden
I heard Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez Oxlaj in an interview say: "Well we come from over near, that handfull of stars over there... we are going back now, and they disapeared".. I really don't know what he means. Is he saying that we come from a heaven and will return there, is it a metaphor, is he talking about another universe designer.. and so on? I don't really have any idea about if there is a God or Gods.. or anything xD

Any thoughts?

the interview;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoP2ruhmtOc


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 Post subject: Re: I have questions
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:57 am 
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A lot will depend on the belief system and culture of the person who we listen to when it comes to discussing the afterlife and the spirit world. My own experience is that the lower world, like the upper world are as vast and all encompassing as the middle world we now find ourselves in. The religious beliefs of people around the world translate into the place they go to after this life. So there is a places- which resembles a magnificent shining city in the mountains and a grey, misty place which could be equated to the Christian concept of limbo for example.

Dreams seem to be very similar in quality to afterlife experiences, the more clear, alert and lucid you are in waking life, the clearer our dreams become. This seems also to be a significant aspect of afterlife experience.

What seems (to me) to be important is what a person believes wholeheartedly at the end of this life. This seems to translate into their immediate experiences afterwards.

Whether we can choose to reincarnate I don't know.


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 Post subject: Re: I have questions
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:59 am 
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Location: Finland
I remember reading a book, where writer experienced in dreams, what happende after death. There was similar thought, like Forest Child's that what a person believes wholeheartedly, that will happen after death. If person believes christian heaven or hell, he will find himself in such a place he believes belonging to.

However that book's writer did not believe in such things, but was only shown those options. Also he was shown what will happen those who do not believe. They will develop their spirit further, do arts in way possible in spiritual realms. Until time and space is right for them to come again to earth. In that book, even heaven would seem nice place, where many would like to stay it is actually illusionary jail preventing further delevelopment of spirit. Millions of minds believe in such place and that force created it and sustains it. So in that way it is real. I cannot recall book's name anymore, but I think it was great.

I thought also, that lowerworld would be the place for dead spirits, but that is not true. I was asked to solve a haunting spirit problem, which kept coming to a friend's old farm. So I got a contact with spirit and tried to help into lowerworld but direction was wrong. Spirithelpers came and directed into upperworld. So, ascension is up. But dead, ancestors live under. Maybe heaven and earth both give birth to human, so maybe something remains also in lowerworld of the image of deceaded person.


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 Post subject: Re: I have questions
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:38 pm 
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That would be David Icke who wrote in his books that you go wherever you believe after death. That belief is very incorrect and every real Shaman will tell you that it is incorrect. And besides why do all people who went on past life hypnotic regressions remember that they were humans in their past lives? Most probably because only human soul can incarnate a human body.


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