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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:49 am 
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And where is the prove? Is it so hard to face death, that evertyhing must be done to avoid it? If you have problems with death, why you think all others have? Where is your prove, that anybode else have worms than you?
Damn these, who have found their "truth", and then all must think likewise.

I recommend you keep testing, trying, critising, doubting, experimenting a little more before this final conclusion. So, maybe you'll have more solid case to present. Or do you mean something more selfevident, inventing a wheel again? Have you ever thought, that these worms can be conversed with, instead of fearing or fighting?

Of course humans have obstacles to overcome, but do those need these tales as a context. I know death can be overcomed also, but is there a reason to keep this body forever?


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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:24 am 
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The pleiades. Aha. Yes, of course ... - yesternight I talked to the ascended beings of Quasar 0405-123. They told me that this open star cluster m45 should mind its own business. Youngsters they are, all of them.

Yes, these worms. I want to see one. JPG or movie in youtube.

Okey, I have to feed some worms now.

Yours,

Apu Kuntur


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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:59 am 
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In all fairness Obijway did make references within the pdf files he issued on the previous page .. here they are again just in case anyone missed them

Quote:
Some reading for you,

http://www.lupuscured.ca/chasinglupus.pdf
http://www.lupuscured.ca/medicine.pdf

I read the first one and scientifically it makes some sense, although the conclusions could not be made genuinely without a much larger 'trial' ..

I trained many years ago in medical laboratory sciences and have experience of applied microbiology, haematology and biochemistry all of which theoretically made sense within the above mentioned thesis . .but again without some double blind testing and a much larger cross section of the population being tested I am afraid the conclusions would be deemed inadmissable ..

I am more than willing to take a 'first drop' sample and pass it over to my sisters and my brother in law, all of which are still in the medical fields, get the sample professionally tested by them and then come back with some results ... however, this may take some time as I do not get a chance to see them very often these days ..

The theory and research made is valid and easily understandable for me, I'll get it checked though and send the links to my close family and see what they say, since it has been many, many years since I was closely linked to the laboratory sciences .. I cannot say fairer than that ...

Respect
Goldie...


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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:02 pm 
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Okay Goldie, it would seem that what I have said is relevant to you. C-reactive protein and Matrix Metalloproteinase are both found to be elevated in perfectly healthy human beings. Anti-nuclear antibodies are also found in perfectly healthy human beings. It is these factors which lead me to believe all humans are infected. The two-fold immune response is very puzzling. Why must our immune system dissolve the inside of the larvae first, why is that important? Why must we dissolve the DNA? Macrophages do not seem to have a problem ingesting bacteria that have entered our bodies and this bacteria also contains DNA. So why is the normal type of immune response forfeited against the larvae of these worms? The conclusion I have come to is that the DNA in a solubolized state would not be able to enter our cells if it was not solubolized. It would be too large of a molecule. If that conclusion is correct, then what is it that the solubolized DNA actually does once it has entered our cells. Does it promote production of specific proteins? Proteins which would facilitate the worms? Or is it to block our DNA from its true purpose? If ascension is indeed biological could this larvae DNA be preventing the body from attaining biological ascension?

Questioning the answers of the medical community with regards to Lupus has lead me to discoveries, which have become my truths. But as you can see, these discoveries have also raised even more puzzling questions. Too which I must concede that I will not be able to answer. Playing around with DNA is not as complicated as it sounds, when one has the necessary tools. For me those tools are beyond my financial resources. So those questions will have to remain just that, questions. But, of course, perhaps I will answer those questions when I find the method that will rid my body of these parasites.

Apu Kuntur, I would like nothing more than to extract a worm from my body, to provide absolute proof. I have tried and believe me I have alot of these worms, but without a harmonic scalpel it is too difficult and to risky. It is a large incision that needs to be made.

Goldie, as for taking samples of the first drop of blood from the finger tip. The skin is a very large organ. the sample of fluid obtained from the finger tip will be insignificant when compared to the overall size of the skin. It will be a hit or miss. If the larvae are not in the location of where you check, you will be left scratching your head. I have Raynaud's phenomenon, which is poor circulation in the extremeties, hands and feet. Something is causing the problem of microvasculation over-dilation, this is from the proteins that I mentioned. The area of the skin where ever these proteins are in abundance will be the location of the larvae. We are essentially asymptomatic to these worms, particularly the smaller one. However, the larger one, when its population is present in great numbers create disease. The systems responsible for pathology are the renin-angiotensin and kinin-kallikrein.


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:24 am 
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Quote:
Apu Kuntur, I would like nothing more than to extract a worm from my body, to provide absolute proof. I have tried and believe me I have alot of these worms, but without a harmonic scalpel it is too difficult and to risky. It is a large incision that needs to be made.


Yes, I am sure. Why not contacting open-minded surgeons? There are enough around that would help you immediately. Such worms must be visible by sonographics or MRT or any other non-invasive diagnostic method, otherwise an operation would not make any sense. It would be a sensation. Can you provide evidence of the other claims you made in this posting?

So then: provide evidence, it is not that difficult. Before I would believe you anything you need to produce evidence to your claims of truth. As long as you keep your truths by yourself I have no problems with your ideas - but you are putting your truth over other truths. Such truths must be based on evidence.

I - and many others - are waiting.

Yours,

Apu Kuntur


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:32 pm 
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You hit the nail right on the head Apu Kuntur, truth above truth. I do not dispute that what you have a learned is truth, but you will dispute that what I have learned is. I have invaded your sanctuary of truth, because I am telling you that there is truth beyond the truth you now know. You do not see logic in reaching beyond your truth, you are safe and secure in your truth. You feel threatened and this threat is no different than the threat you faced before you realized you were a shaman, but you did step beyond your safety zone then, didn’t you. And look at you now, you have become more. I am not forcing this truth on you, if you have an open mind, and if you think this is important, then you will research it, just as I have, and develop your own truth regarding it. The first step is the most difficult one to take, because then you will not have any handholds to reassure you, and you will be alone.

You can accept the paradigm of life and death as we have come to know it, I cannot; I am reaching beyond that truth. It is uncharted territory. If there is one thing that the death of Jesus showed us is the fact that the body is needed for ascension. His body needed to be resurrected and joined with the spirit for him to ascend. That is biological ascension, body and soul, not mind, body and soul, body and soul. The mind is the soul, it is your identity, your true self, and it requires a vessel to evolve. The biological body will die for ascension to take place, because it cannot exist in a higher realm of energies when it is governed by the energies of the lower realms. So the body will evolve, in essence, die, to support these higher energies and support evolution of the soul. Yes, uncharted territory, do you walk the path of the many, so that you will not be alone, or do you walk the path that only one has walked before you.


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:45 pm 
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There is no point in discussing and trying to justify your attitude. I want proof for your claims. Better provide it - because it is you that claims these things to be true for us and not only for yourself.

Christianity is your truth, not mine.

Yours,

Apu Kuntur


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:23 pm 
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Because I have used Jesus as an example of biological ascension does not mean that christianity is my truth. It does mean that christianity is the truth of Jesus either. Jesus was a messenger, nothing more and nothing less. He was sent to lead the way for biological ascension. He is not the son of the god in the bible, that is a malevolent god that the church has tied to him. As you can see, christianity is definitely not my truth. Jesus healed the sick and despite this evidence people did not believe his words. I come along and tell you the origins of disease and death, and still you do not believe. Would you really believe if I extracted a worm from my skin. I doubt it. These worms exist, they have been found in others, surgically removed and analysed. And still you do not believe, so how will my extracting one from my skin change your mind. If these worms have been extracted from hundreds of others, how can one more extraction change your mind, it can't, can it.

This dialogue reminds me of an episode I saw on the twilight zone. Jesus was reincarnated on earth and claimed to have the cures for disease, he had it written done on a piece of paper. He ran from person to person telling them to just look at what he had discovered. The people did not believe him, they stoned him to death in the streets, and their he died once again. His dying hand released its grip on the paper with the cure for disease and it became lost to the wind. The truth, once again lost to the arrogance of the people.


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:54 pm 
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You can tell here anyone everything and sell it as truth. Worms can be seen, filmed, scanned, pinpointed, photographed and sectioned. So - if you cannot provide anyone worm for evidence - why should I believe you anything regarding them? At last it is not a question of belief but of visible entities - worms. You claim that hundreds of them were extracted: Provide evidence. Where and when by whom. Where are the datas? Who published on them, what medicinal congress or people are specialized in them? Do not come up with some weird Sitchin-like theories of conspirations, because that is only an excuse of avoiding the proof that is needed.

Either you are delusional or you are telling the truth. Only an evidence that can be seen is valid here. I met enough people with delusional illusions, some of them paranoid. Ever heard of scientific methods? Apply them to the worms and then I know you are right. Simply telling me that you have many of them in your body - is your opinion and unproofed because you are not providing a specimen that can be analysed.

No proof - no truth.

This is quite easy to understand.

Yours,

Apu Kuntur


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:58 pm 
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I think all the proof is right here to show how pointless this topic has been from beginning. There can be no conversation, where is no dialogue. This is monologue.


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:47 pm 
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/
At that link you will find hundreds perhaps thousands of published medical papers on Onchocerca volvulus and Mansonella streptocerca if you do a search.
Google both of names and you will also find other places of information with images. These worms are nothing new, they have been known by medicine for over 150 years. We still cannot kill them. We cannot even study their life cycle in a laboratory because we do not know how to duplicate their life cycle in a petri dish.

The only diagnostic imaging tool that we seem to have that can provide visualization of these worms while in the body is ultrasound. But this device only works on deep tissue nodules, it cannot see into the skin. All of our diagnostic imaging tools work very well at seeing through the skin, but do not work at all in seeing "into" the skin.

Can these worms be felt, yes, periodically, but only the larger one, and you may not have that one. They live in an area of the skin where we do not have nerve endings that respond to the sensation of touch. They live in the fat layer, we do not have any nerve endings in this layer of tissue, let alone touch responsive nerves. They are felt periodically when they go into the higher levels of the skin.

I know lots about science and its methods. I am not a scientist and have no desire to become one. I am a shaman and I still have no desire to learn the plants that will treat symptoms of disease, that is not enough for me. My desire is to treat the root cause of disease and I will continue on this path despite your skepticism and objections.


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:04 pm 
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You know, I had thought that a shaman would have the most open mind of all humans. They are the most critized of all healers on this planet. Main stream science is trying to squash their existence out of existence.

You say that your path in this life as a healer is guided by spirits, prove it.

You can't can you, neither can I. All you have, and all that I have is our word.


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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:18 am 
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Ojibway ..

I do not believe anyone is denying the existance of these worms .. they have been fully documented by the scientific community ..

I feel that most are questioning your conclusions and they have a perfect right to do so ..

I can fully understand how your lupus can affect your desire to search deeper for an explanation for the dis-ease because without this digging for knowledge it is partially without reason . .at least by deflecting the focus across to these worms you could understandably have something to fight against ..

If you truly have the feeling that these worms have a direct correlation to your lupus then there are plants in nature that could assist you in eradicating them from your body .. one such example is 'pau d'arco' whilst a favorite of mine is 'osha' .. both are indicated to eradicate parasites if applied in medicinal dosages . .have you attempted any such eradication?

Please see the above as a question and not as an attack upon your person ...

Respect
Goldie...


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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:27 am 
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ojibway wrote:
You know, I had thought that a shaman would have the most open mind of all humans. They are the most critized of all healers on this planet. Main stream science is trying to squash their existence out of existence.

You say that your path in this life as a healer is guided by spirits, prove it.

You can't can you, neither can I. All you have, and all that I have is our word.


You have Lupus - I have not. You are telling me that these worms are responsible for (look yourself). What does your claims have to do with anyone elses calling? Nothing.

Attacking on personal level is a proof of lack-of-arguments. Thank you for your own de-masking.

So, these worms are responsible for Lupus, according to what you think. That much I already know, because I read through your Links already. Tell me: Why did it took hours of your senseless Jesus-talks to post this link?

I do not have these worms in my body. Here in germany 40.000 people have Lupus.

I have asked you to show me one worm. I can see these worms now, you gave them a scientific name I can match and check. But the effects of these worms you are claiming here - sorry, I am not following your ideas about it. This pleiades-sirian-alienagenda-stuff is way off. Does not have anything in common with shamanism, too.

Then I wonder: You said there are hundreds around that do this operations and all that. Go there and ask them to do their jobs.

So, I am out here. Does not make sense to waste time more then necessary.

Yours,

Apu Kuntur


Last edited by Apu Kuntur on Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:37 am 
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Quote:
You say that your path in this life as a healer is guided by spirits, prove it.


Nope, I never said that. I never claim being "a healer".

*rotfl*

Apu Kuntur


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