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 Post subject: Re: Can White People Be Shamans?
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:35 pm
Posts: 30
I'm going to try to be as nice as possible, but whoever asked this question is suffering from extreme white humility. Knock it off! Do you think the spirits care whether you're white,black,red, or yellow, short,tall,fat or whatever? Doesn't matter. The spirits that I have communed with seem to like people the best that are simply just themselves. Get off it!


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 Post subject: Re: Can White People Be Shamans?
 Post Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 10:41 pm 
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I believe the spirits are calling many of us at present to integrate shamanic practice into the modern culture we are in, here and now, to 'dream a new dream' of healing and sustainability for the earth and all our relations, regardless of skin color or the specific tradition we come from.


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis McKenna comment
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:48 pm 
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Posts: 32
One disturbing trend among mainstream, white skinned North Americans is the ease to which many people are now able to become shamans. Now anyone, if they have money enough, can take a weekend course on shamanism.

Wouldn't you be offended if you had lived and studied your whole life to become a shaman as per your cultural traditions and an outside shows up at a ceremony one day and claims to also be a shaman after having taken only a three day course on the subject?

Even in the United States, remember that until 1978 it was still illegal for some Native Americans to participate Sacred Ceremonies like the Sun Dance. Throughout American history, Indigenous people died either protecting their sacred ceremonies and customs or died because they choose to perform those sacred customs instead of being assimilated.

These sacrifices need to be acknowledhged by the new age movement and honours, how Dennis McKenna puts it:

Michael wrote:
"I don't think any indigenous group owns the wisdom, it is the common heritage of humanity, as is all of this. The indigenous people have been the stewards of this knowledge for thousands of years and this needs to be recognized and acknowledged."


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 Post subject: Re: Dennis McKenna comment
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:16 pm
Posts: 260
Location: NW UK
North wrote:
One disturbing trend among mainstream, white skinned North Americans is the ease to which many people are now able to become shamans. Now anyone, if they have money enough, can take a weekend course on shamanism.

Wouldn't you be offended if you had lived and studied your whole life to become a shaman as per your cultural traditions and an outside shows up at a ceremony one day and claims to also be a shaman after having taken only a three day course on the subject?

Even in the United States, remember that until 1978 it was still illegal for some Native Americans to participate Sacred Ceremonies like the Sun Dance. Throughout American history, Indigenous people died either protecting their sacred ceremonies and customs or died because they choose to perform those sacred customs instead of being assimilated.

These sacrifices need to be acknowledhged by the new age movement and honours, how Dennis McKenna puts it:


I agree, it is disturbing and I have personally taken to task a good friend who, after a 3 month correspondence course on shamanism started teaching it!!!! But this is what happens when there is nothing else available and no clear teaching as to why not everyone who is called to a shamanistic life has to become a shaman.

I remember an interesting conversation with a teacher some years ago. I asked her why, after 10 years of teaching did she have so few actual shamanic practitioners from her numerous students over the years? She couldn't give me an answer but it seems as though many people are drawn to a truth within them which shamanism seems to answer, however there is no teaching or real community yet in the west which allows all people to learn, live and understand from a shamanic viewpoint without having to become a shaman. It is confusing because there is not yet that solid basis.

Why was it in 1978 that finally the US became more open and tolerant of 1st nation culture? Because the New Age/Hippy movement had opened enough eyes to allow this tolerance to blossom. What do we need now? More walls between cultures or more understanding?

Life isn't perfect, people make mistakes but if we are ever to encourage strong, balanced and secure human beings and thereby allow each and every human being to find their own truth then we have to find new paths to teaching and self awareness which forms strong new communities and brings all communities together.


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 Post subject: Re: Can White People Be Shamans?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:29 am
Posts: 22
Quote:
Can White People Be Shamans?


Let's take a trip back in time to Pagan Ireland...

Yup. There were shamans. Back then, they were called druids, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Can White People Be Shamans?
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:56 pm 
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Snowy wrote:
Quote:
Can White People Be Shamans?


Let's take a trip back in time to Pagan Ireland...

Yup. There were shamans. Back then, they were called druids, though.


Yes indeed. They were originally indigenous to that part of the world and that culture is their birth right.


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 Post subject: Re: Can White People Be Shamans?
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:23 am 
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Quote:
Yes indeed. They were originally indigenous to that part of the world and that culture is their birth right.


Yup. And there are Celtic neoshamans and modern-day druids around Europe and North America (and probably Australia?)

But what about all the countries who have lost their shamanistic roots? Japan, oddly enough, has practitioners of the traditional ways but somehow they became ineffective (most if not all of their shamans could not make actual spirit contact, they could only do symbolic ceremony).

Well, I did hear that the FSS was teaching Core Shamanism in Japan. Core Shamanism is made up of the universal techniques found in all shamanistic cultures, instead of being from a specific culture, so people from countries who have lost the old ways could still learn shamanism.


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 Post subject: Re: Can White People Be Shamans?
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:00 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:25 pm
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I personally think old-earth shamans are just people "captured" by spirits, transformed into a shamans, and must make the spirits happy.

There are some egotistical spirits out there.

Is that rain god an inherent component of the physical world, or is it a spirit, an energy, that wants attention?

Maybe the spirits were really out to help, but there are definitely elementals with some non-high-vibrational traits and ideas that they want to share with humans.

They never see energies for what they are. They look like a tangled mass that you must have clairsentience to decipher. They only see things like a dream, which makes me distrust the intent with which the dream was generated for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Can White People Be Shamans?
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:29 am
Posts: 22
Quote:
I personally think old-earth shamans are just people "captured" by spirits, transformed into a shamans, and must make the spirits happy.

There are some egotistical spirits out there.


If you have a problem with the problem with the profession of shamanism, I suggest you do not frequent shamanism forums. You are being quite disrespectful.

Quote:
Is that rain god an inherent component of the physical world, or is it a spirit, an energy, that wants attention?


Rain spirits are very much part of the world, they are the spiritual side of the physical rain. They are the rain, in other words.


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 Post subject: Re: Can White People Be Shamans?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:30 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Montreal
White people want to be in touch with the Earth too you know. They create solar panels, wind turbines, electric cars, whatever.. and especially since the 80s and 90s the new generations have been taught to be inclusive with one another, not to be racist, to look at things feeling global.

This is a big aspect of 90s youth culture.

or at least for a long time it was .
Still is really...

Watch just about any alternative rock music video. This is the artform that was pioneered by Kenneth Anger through his mystic fire magick lantern cycle culminating in Lucifer Rising (watch!).

This is black metal

This is black metal

...

Feel connected now?

I do.

I need to make a thread about this...I have a story.


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 Post subject: Re: Can White People Be Shamans?
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:18 pm
Posts: 20
SundayForever wrote:
I believe the spirits are calling many of us at present to integrate shamanic practice into the modern culture we are in, here and now, to 'dream a new dream' of healing and sustainability for the earth and all our relations, regardless of skin color or the specific tradition we come from.


"dream a new dream"...thank you, that sums up my feelings exactly.


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