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 Post Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:40 am 
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Location: Penticton
My family is from Ireland - a Pagan Druidic culture that was practicing Earth/Spirit medicine for millenia until it was forced into suppression due to imminent death, imprisonment, and torture which happened hundreds of years ago. Yes, things have changed, but I think we are remembering that which has been forgotten.

I feel deeply that there is no such thing as 'white'...there is only relationship to the elements, and this is reflected in the amount of melanin of skin. We have been told this makes us different...and what we believe, we create.

Anam Cara
ddo


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 Post Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:34 am 
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No. Under no circumstances can white people be shamans. It is irrefutable impossible.

For one, there is no such thing as a 'white' person. A person can wear white, paint themselves white, and even say they are white. However, no matter how pale a person happens to get, they are never actually white. There is no such thing.

For another, as someone pointed out earlier, the migratory tendencies of paleolithic proto-cultural ancestors negates the whole racial division as a whole. Geneticists will readily discuss sub species divisions in dogs, cats, and various other animals, but never when discussion humans. There simply isn't enough genetic diversity to support the sub-categorization.

Can you be a shaman? I don't know. I can't answer that question. For one, I'm not qualified to make such an assessment. For another, I don't know you. But, whether you can or not has absolutely nothing to do with your ethnic divergence or cultural handicap unless you let it.


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 Post subject: What makes a Shaman
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:49 am 
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Location: Cincinnati, OH USA
A Shaman is defined by the work they do in service to others. While they may be shaped by the community from which they spring, the Shaman moves between the worlds – beyond the the boundaries of race and skin and culture.

The word shaman is not from the "white" culture. It was "discovered" in the Tungus among the Tinglit speaking people of Mongolia. When ethnographers and early anthropologists realized that the phenomenon of spiritual healers was to me found everywhere in the aboriginal world, the term was applied to all other examples.

Only spirit chooses who is to become a Shaman.

namaste,

Kenn Day
www.shamanstouch.com


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 Post Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:36 am 
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
"Only spirit chooses who is to become a Shaman. "

Spot on here.

If you consider that a "shaman" acts as a bridge between the spirit world and the physical world, and that we are all spiritual beings having a physical experience, the idea of race pretty much makes no difference.

If you take Western culture into consideration, with all its materialism, jingoism, and its need to measure, dominate, mass produce and market everything, then the conclusion seems to be something quite different.

It seems that in order to heal one's self, and the sicknesses of a materialistic society, one must step outside the confines of that society into the realm of spirit, and return with the necessary medicine to cure the very society he or she has stepped away from.

Through our work, we come to realize that society, with all its trappings and labels (including words like "shaman") is simply a construct. Spirit is what really matters, all the rest is smoke and mirrors...


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 Post Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:29 am 
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Hello,

I honor the question you are asking, and you for having the courage to ask it. Perhaps this information will help.

There is a conflict within some North American Native communities that no one single person will ever resolve. I say that the conflict lies within some North American Native communities because in my experience with the South American tribes, this topic is a non-issue. The Q'uero say that white North Americans are the "new shamans". We are part of the sacred prophecy by which they live.

In certain North American Native communities, there are those who believe that the sacred teachings should only be given to those of Native heritage ~ so certainly any non-Native person claiming to be a medicine person or shaman is seen by these folks as a fraud. This is one camp.

In these same communities, there are others who see that the path of spirit contains all the colors on the medicine wheel ~ red, yellow, black, and white. These are the folks who see that spirit touches us without regard to the color of our skin. This is the other camp.

In life there will always be people who disagree with you and people who agree with you. There is not One Way that will please everyone. You must decide where you choose to stand, and what you believe, and live from that place. In other words, choose your camp. There is no right and wrong, just choice.

I pray that the current time of transformation will touch those whose hearts are closed to true Oneness. May they be touched by healing, love, and compassion, bringing forth a new openness and receptivity in them equal to that found in their brothers and sisters to the South. May we all stand in the circle as partners in the effort to heal and to create joy.

Blessings,
kimberly

The Vision Quest Coach
http://www.thevisionquestcoach.com


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:13 pm
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Location: Western Colorado
The very idea that whites cannot be shamans is racist at its core.

I am white, and I did not choose to be a shaman. I came up out of a coma a shaman. The story of my experience is outlined on Talking Stick in another thread.

Shamanism chose me, not the other way around.

Anyone who makes the pronouncement that whites cannot become shamans, should examine their deepest feelings and motivations for the ugly stains of ethnic superiority and generalizations -- you know, thoughts like "typical white person" and the like.

This topic makes me uncomfortable, but it is one that should be addressed.

Old Rivers


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:46 am 
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Location: Finland
Can I be shaman? How to become a shaman? I want to be shaman. ...I want to be something!

Quite often this is the tendency. People want to be something superior, special, to be better than others. Most seekers are just feeding their ego with this talk about becoming something.

If you got 'medice' just use it, you do not need any exotic labels derived from tungusian language. Main difference there is between seeking, finding acceptance of others and actually working.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:45 am 
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Location: Euclid, OH
"Can I be shaman? How to become a shaman? I want to be shaman"

From what I have experienced (the little I have experienced of Shaman/Sorcerer energy personally, and what I have witnessed), it is not something that, if you understood what is involved in the transformation from "human" to "Shaman", you would not be so anxious to embrace it.

Crowtalker


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 Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:52 pm 
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MAybe this anxiety to become shaman is because of the charisma of *New Age Gurus*, who just keep talking how great they are, abusing wisdom of indigenous cultures, just because they have not found anything of their own. It seems becoming shaman nowadays doesn't require else, than loud, convincing voice and 'honest face'. When shamanism has turned to be keeping workshops after workshop with so many partisipants as possible, that "shaman" doesn't even have CONTACT with all attainers, I just wonder...

Those, who have been dismembered, been really sick, forced to balance their feminine-maculine energy by using opposite gender's clothes, and so on, could add something how great it is to become this "spirit healer" What workshops actually give any warning, how life changing true thing is??? True thing comes from spirits, not humans or their moneyhungry business - or skin color.


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 Post Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:50 pm 
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Jusma wrote:
MAybe this anxiety to become shaman is because of the charisma of *New Age Gurus*, who just keep talking how great they are, abusing wisdom of indigenous cultures, just because they have not found anything of their own. It seems becoming shaman nowadays doesn't require else, than loud, convincing voice and 'honest face'. When shamanism has turned to be keeping workshops after workshop with so many partisipants as possible, that "shaman" doesn't even have CONTACT with all attainers, I just wonder...

Those, who have been dismembered, been really sick, forced to balance their feminine-maculine energy by using opposite gender's clothes, and so on, could add something how great it is to become this "spirit healer" What workshops actually give any warning, how life changing true thing is??? True thing comes from spirits, not humans or their moneyhungry business - or skin color.


Yes.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:37 am 
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It's already been pointed out, but lost in the flood of horror at the concept of racism in shamanism, so I'll make the point again.... Shamanism within indiginous populations is not restricted to non-white demographics. Celtic Shamanism was very, very significant and well developed, and if you feel the need to follow the genetics of this incarnation back to find a physical link to a particular 'brand' of Shamanic mythos and stories, try that as an option.

But remember that Shamans ALL access the same point. The same dream. The Aborigines of my homeland call it the Dreamtime, which I just love. Such a perfect word for it. The Dreamtime, this is the place that breaches geographic, temporal, physical, genetic boundaries.

All shamans learn within this place. For whatever reason, you have chosen to incarnate as a Caucasian, which means you have work to do in that form, and lessons to learn in that form. Embrace it, but don't allow some kind of modern social preconception to hinder you.

Each culture has its own myths and stories, but the core truth of these comes from Otherworld.... they're different only because the perceptions, attitudes, and societies of the various cultures were different. They're simply different aspects of the same truth.


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 Post subject: Dennis McKenna comment
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:18 pm 
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I was listening to a podcast of an interview with Dennis McKenna and he made the following comment:

"I don't think any indigenous group owns the wisdom, it is the common heritage of humanity, as is all of this. The indigenous people have been the stewards of this knowledge for thousands of years and this needs to be recognized and acknowledged."


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:36 am 
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A white dog and a brown dog met on the trail one day,the white dog said ho Brother I was born Deaf,as is the case with many white dogs,can you heal me,the brown dog just kept walking,a little farther down the trail white dog met a brindle dog and asked to be healed,the brindle dog just kept walking,after walking a good bit and being rejected the white dog sat down in the trail and asked the spirit within why no one would help him,butterfly landed on his nose and kept staring in his eyes,white dog was sure something was being said but couldnt quite make it out,he sat for 3 days communing with the butterfly,when finally he asked the spirit within to help him understand people,the butterfly flew away,after a bit white dog walked down the trail again and along the way he met a coyote,coyote planted himself in the middle of the trail and growled aggressively ,white dog cried,why cant i be healed,coyote barked back,I sent your brothers to teach you and I sent the spirit to comfort you and all you can do is cry heal me heal me,why havent you healed yourself,every creature in the world has this power,your problem is YOU DONT LISTEN.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:13 pm
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Location: Western Colorado
Brother Tony,

What is your point?


Tony Bellah wrote:
A white dog and a brown dog met on the trail one day,the white dog said ho Brother I was born Deaf,as is the case with many white dogs,can you heal me,the brown dog just kept walking,a little farther down the trail white dog met a brindle dog and asked to be healed,the brindle dog just kept walking,after walking a good bit and being rejected the white dog sat down in the trail and asked the spirit within why no one would help him,butterfly landed on his nose and kept staring in his eyes,white dog was sure something was being said but couldnt quite make it out,he sat for 3 days communing with the butterfly,when finally he asked the spirit within to help him understand people,the butterfly flew away,after a bit white dog walked down the trail again and along the way he met a coyote,coyote planted himself in the middle of the trail and growled aggressively ,white dog cried,why cant i be healed,coyote barked back,I sent your brothers to teach you and I sent the spirit to comfort you and all you can do is cry heal me heal me,why havent you healed yourself,every creature in the world has this power,your problem is YOU DONT LISTEN.


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 Post subject: Re: Can White People Be Shamans?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:26 am
Posts: 181
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Six Fingers wrote:
I suppose the question might be absurd, but I guess here's the place to ask right? I'm interested in shamanic practices, but I'm afraid how well i'd be received by others. It seems i've heard both sides of the story. I've been told that white people have treated the earth with such disrespect for so long that they no longer posess the connection and skills to listen to her. On the other hand, I've been told that shamanism more or less finds you, and its a matter of the spirit, rather than the color of your skin. Uggh. I'm so confused. I would really like some feedback on this.


"White" people - I have some problems with this term.

Anyway. Yes, it is a matter of the spirits whether you become shaman or not. You still can learn the techniques, but at the end the results count and nothing else. I meet frequently "educated" shamans that have learned the techniques without being called. Some of them can shamanize, most others better stay away from shamanizing for others - still wondering what is soo appealing in becoming a shaman at all.

Here in Europe we have shamans. As well as in Siberia, where the term as such originated.

Yours,

Apu Kuntur


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