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 Post subject: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:17 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:29 am
Posts: 77
Location: London
The teachers that run these organizations and schools are false teachers, only interested in having the image of a shaman and making money. There is a saying in the martial arts, to know how good a master is, observe his students. The same obviously applies to shamans. This is why the shamans cannot heal is becuase their teachers are false shamans.

One shaman claimed on a workshop I attended, that his spirits told him to stop healing and only teach. And this shaman claimed the main task of a shaman is to heal. What spirits would tell a shaman to stop healing, obviously this is the shaman`s excuse because he wants to make money. I asked this shaman for a healing and he refused and told me to ask one of his students. Three of his students tried to heal me with no success, so obviously the teacher has no healing power.

Most of these teachers will only perform workshops and seminars and refuse healing or they charge an excessive price and then cannot heal.

When approaching a teacher one should ask for proof that the teacher is a true shaman.

I challenge these false shamans to heal me, the ones that refuse or cannot heal, their students should consider whether this teacher is the one to teach them. Some of these teachers I have asked to heal and they refused, others I have been to their students with no success which obviously reflects the teacher`s ability.

Michael Harner, Sandra Ingerman, Chris Lattichu, Ross Heaven, Simon Buxton, Jonathan Horwitz, Leo Rutherford, Alberto Villodo, Byambadorj Dondog, Chonbaatar, Circle of Tengerism, Eirik Myrhaug, Ahamkara, Olga Kharitidi, Mohan Rai, Biven Mamonta.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:00 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:26 am
Posts: 181
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Rather weird point of view. You obviously have no idea what shamans do. Otherwise you would realize that a material teacher has only marginally something to do with the abilities of the student.

It is up to the spirits what can be achieved - and not up to the teacher.

BTW: I doubt that anyone of those you mentioned here will ever react on your rather aggressive posting. How much does a flight from Siberia to London costs on time and money? A suggestion: Fly to Siberia, Tuva or Burjatia, seek those "false" shamans and find out by yourself. Sitting in London and blaming around does not help you, on the contrary. It hinders you. Any bell ringing?


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:45 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Dallas, Texas
Apu,
Do you think the "weird point of view" is a symptom of the dis-ease barry is seeking relief from? I suspect this is so. It seems deeply manifest, coloring and directing observation towards containers, externals, dualisms, divisions. The view prevents the attitude to escape into an ascension path and activate the "doctor within", thus unable to fully tap into the unity that nurtures each of us from inside out. I only suspect this because I've felt it myself albeit to a lesser degree. It is a most challenging situation. And yet, he is breathing. There is great hope.

There's a good chance I am wrong. I am but a beginner. But this is my feeling on the matter. Your thoughts?


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:26 am
Posts: 181
Location: Bavaria, Germany
As I have hinted: Does that ring a bell?

Yes, indeed.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:29 am
Posts: 77
Location: London
I have tried the shamans in Mongolia and they are false shamans. I am stating these things from experience.

I contacted Byambadorj Dondog and requested a distance healing as I cannot travel. Byambadorj asked for $1000 for the healing. I was unemployed but managed to borrow the money. I had heard a lot about Byambadorj and how good a shaman he was supposed to be and thought if anyone could heal this he could. Anyway I paid him the money and he never performed the healing. I reported Byambadorj to the Circle of Tengerism as they monitor these shamans by issuing them licenses. The COT were not interested. In the COT`s website it stated that shamans who quote prices will lose their license. Now it states that some Mongolian shamans are now quoting prices. Is the actions of true shamans?

I am not expecting these teachers to respond to my challenge as they have no healing powers, they are only interested in charging excessive fees for training. Most ignored my requests for healing before. Why would they ignore my healing request if they are true shamans. By ignoring my challenge they just show they have no healing powers.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:51 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Ohio
...I...want to say so many things right now...but I'm keeping my mouth shut for the betterment of my temper.

I think I shall simply say that one must learn to overcome his own fears and insecurities before expecting others to not only come to his aid, but be able to provide him with aid.

True help comes not to those who simply seek it, and especially not to those who demand it, it comes to those who try to help themselves first.


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 Post subject: hmmm
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:37 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:43 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Wales
well
hmmm....

i think i should post something on this matter that may help this,

To see is not to believe,
To believe is to see,


this has helped me alot,

StoneCrow...
...think about it eh?


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:46 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:29 am
Posts: 77
Location: London
You are all closing your eyes to the fact you are being taught by false teachers and by seeing this you would lose your image of being a shaman.

If you all claim to be true shamans then please explain why no one here can heal, including your false teachers. Some refuse to heal, why would they if they truly had healing powers. It is just the image of being a shaman is what you want and the money in the case of Byambadorj.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:26 am
Posts: 181
Location: Bavaria, Germany
I do not HAVE to clean ANYBODIES posterior. No shaman HAVE TO heal anyone, even if asked. Take this as an answer. And: I do not need 1000 USD so desparatel


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:55 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:27 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Cedar Park, TX 78613
How will you know when your healed ? When you miraculousely become successful,,a man stands in a crowd of people and yells ""Heal me"",Has the medical and psichiatric world recieved the benefits of your disdain or is it just the Shamanic world you hate,you think someone can give you some kind of guarantee or spell that will make you and your brother successful,you have everything that you deserve,your problem is its not all you want,sometimes children shouldnt have everything they want because they never learn to work for anything or to achieve anything for themselves,,unless of course this subject isnt really what your here for anyway,even the handycapped have a place in the world,what is your place ?


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:35 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:43 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Wales
i personally was not taught by another shaman, i was tought by the spirits they show me what i want or need to know,

and no i have never healed anyone but i have never tried, i have healed myself and prayed for others and it has always worked. Prayer by the way has been scientifically proved

shamanism is not all about healing people either it is about understanding and being in harmony with the world we all live in, the world the general mass of people are unwittingly destroying.

we work to heal the earth and to encourage others

we are the centers of communities or the people many look to for advice and that rare chance to be listened to by another. ill people who get one on one time with someone they trust heal faster, proven.

we are the dirty bastard at the edge of humanity

i dont know wether you are ill or wether you are just angry but perhaps the illness is not caused by another maybe you need to sit down and think about what you really want to do with your life

or maybe you need to try to become a shaman and see how you do, maybe you could show us inferior people how to heal.

but really i think you need to do your research or maybe youve done to much, to cry when you want to and to laugh when you need to. to stop trying to judge and just trust in the universe.

StoneCrow...
...


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:00 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:29 am
Posts: 77
Location: London
Anthony Bellah,

What I hate (if hate is the right word) is false shamans who claim that they are healers because they have been on workshops or courses, this does not make one a shaman.

I will know when I am healed by the simple fact that when I try something it will not be prevented from succeeding. I do not meen everything will succeeed but it will not be 100% prevention as now.

If the "shamans" on this forum cannot heal then they should not be calling themselves shamans.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:39 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:26 am
Posts: 181
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Barry blames ALL shamans that refuse to heal HIM, or perform something that does not help him, as false shamans. That is a catch-of-all accusation. No offence taken, but simply asking Barry that he should give us all the proof that a shaman HAS to heal HIM in particular - especially after his performance here.

I simply do not waste time when it is obvious that one is reluctant of accepting that a shaman is also a human.

After his blamings and false accusations no shaman with a rest of self-respect would even thing of healing him. I did not even started to take this idea as a given choice and thus being a "false" shaman to him. Ridiculous enough because I never title myself "shaman". This is far off - and I repeat that anytime this Barry blames around here.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:35 pm
Posts: 98
Location: Stafford Springs ,CT US
Barry, I hope you are doing better than the last time we talked. It seems like you are getting a little closer to finding the answers that you seek. And for you calling the so called Shamans false Shamans or frauds. I see nothing wrong with you voiceing your opinion. I don't call myself a Shaman but others have called me that. I practice Shamanism. And for myself I know who I am and I don't take any offense or even take in anything said in a negative way towards me . I am a big boy and respect your opinion but don't take it in. I am glad to see you getting a little angry and voiceing your opinion this is a big step and a positive one for you. You are going from being a victum and being depressed to now being angry or mad which is a big step forword. I wish you would listen to what I said to you earlier because I belive it is the problem. Please don't waste anymore of your money this will not help you. I wish you lived closer because I am all about the traditional ways and I know what is your problem. And like I said before all of the healing and cleanseing is right there in side of you no where else. Just look in the mirror and start loveing what you see because we are all created from the same Great Spirit (GOD) energy and we are all sons and daughters of GOD. So when you look in the mirror you are looking at one of many gods. This is what has been supressed in all of us by millions of ways for thousands of years. But the good news is that people are starting to seek and find the truth and they are starting to awake from the mind control and brainwashing. There is nothing in this world that can hurt you unless YOU let it. YOU are in total CONTROL of your life if you understand who you are ! And that's what Shaman's, medicine men, monks , spiritual healers do. They try to awaken you to open up to find your true self useing many different ways. But the healing or awakening is done by you and you alone. There is no amount of money or gold in the world that can help you. Except YOU ! Good luck Barry I hope you can release the bondage that you have wrap around your self and start loving yourself and be your own Shaman to find your BLISS!! Many Blessings Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:34 am
Posts: 39
Location: New Mexico
barry wrote:
The teachers that run these organizations and schools are false teachers, only interested in having the image of a shaman and making money. There is a saying in the martial arts, to know how good a master is, observe his students. The same obviously applies to shamans. This is why the shamans cannot heal is becuase their teachers are false shamans.



As a martial artist and ex MA teacher and a student (of one of the people listed below) who makes people feel better about the problem(s) they used to have, I would just have to say you are mistaken. So, I guess at least one of the below must be for real, lol!

Perhaps you need a little ayahuasca to help you see the light.


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