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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:32 pm
Posts: 90
Location: Maryland
For others following this.

The American Revolution was the destruction of many peoples of what was left of Native nations in that some sided with colonists and others British only to be betrayed by both. But before that the Natives were already changed by the preceding 200 years of colonial intrusion. Some advantageous as in the Algonquins destroying much of the Iroquois and to their demise as in the death march that took many Cherokee as far as Oklahoma. So, "tradition" is speculative at best.
Historically, survivors of genocidal atrocities mingled and became stronger and so goes the story here.
But before any of that....Europeans were here a thousand years before Columbus, and, if you had a clue, you would know that all of that history was passed on verbally in original dialects, some of which containing Celtic similarity in words and symbology.
You would also know that there was a justified aversion to paper, i.e. white boy approved indian id cards, treaties,....not to mention the desire to pass on family info to anonymous people online asking for such as an misinformed person who has given sign of being on some ill guided mission of malice. Think about it. You want me to give family info to some stranger (you) on the internet so they can get pestered by his stupid questions.
Oh, I teach Shamanism, not tradition or folklore.

Said survivors may have even come up with sayings like "Never trust a man whose ass is wider than his shoulders" or "The body is product of the character." implying that fat is lazy and shouldn't be trusted. Something prevalent in the new age/spiritual culture.
Did I strike a nerve?
"..your utter lack of cultural connection or sense of context to the high rates of diabetes within Native communities." This is priceless. Not only a good example of a loser mentality but an excellent example of what happens to a people when they go along with the "hand out" mentality of being taken care of by the government. You want to talk tradition yet bring up an example of people giving in and getting fat. Brilliant.

If you were familiar with my inner city work it would be obvious I'm not a racist. Actions speak louder than words.

As far as ego. Ain't braggin' if it's true. I've done a lot and I'm doing more. Keep up on my website. I'll be working a huge "green" project in Mayan territory soon. You doing anything for anyone? I kinda doubt it.
Shamanism really is about doing, you know. I'd call that Great Law but that's just me.
By the way, I love these public banters. It helps keep the white lighter/new age flakes away. Please feel free to leave comments on my blog blueplanetshaman.com

"...dangerous to the concept of Indigenous healing work and shamanism." Sorry to hear that phrase made sense to you.
Indigenous healing work like shaking rattles and calling in totems? I'm glad I'm dangerous to that. I'm glad I'm also dangerous to GMO foods, Monsanto, conventional farming and carcinogens.

Okay, all you followers, my Shamanic goal is to help people believe in themselves. Not indigenous folklore or tradition. If I was to suggest any study to undertake that would really help understand the core of Shamanism it would be quantum physics for there lies the mysteries of life. If you don't want to do that, go hang out in an air conditioned classroom with fat ass new agers shaking rattles and calling in totems, being careful to not walk off your flat Earth.

My bad. Do us all a favor and keep walking.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:02 am 
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Nice little discussion going on here. It goes to show that healers and the like are human, after all :|

Why would one form of healing be better than the other? Is it an absolute prerequisite that healing can only be done by "authentic" healers who can rattle off their lineage down to the umptieth generation? Each to his/her own. When people want healing done by "authentic indigenous" medicine people they can go find one. It's up to their own power of discernment to find out whether they're dealing with the real thing or not. If other folks are more comfortable with modern forms of healing, why stop them? This world evolves, with our without us, and in some instances it's good to go with the flow, while still keeping your own roots and cultural heritage either in the back of your mind or in the foreground.

Anybody accusing another person of being "false" has, in my opinion at least, a serious self confidence issue. Your life and your path entirely depends on your own decisions and actions. If somebody decides to consult a so-called false shaman, that's their lesson to learn. And heck, things that give us a "bad gut feeling" might be extremely valuable for another. It is not up to us to impart our own personal convictions on another human being. We're only here to help people, and everybody does that in his or her own manner. Who are we to judge?

And if you really want to get down to the nitty gritty: ANYBODY claiming to practice shamanism (officially called Tengerism) and not from either Mongolian or Siberian indigenous stock is a "false" shaman and stealing from another culture! As long as you're serious about being an "upright human being" and making sure your actions are in accord with that conviction, you're not breaking any laws.

There's a fantastic saying having to do with living in glass houses and throwing rocks.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:44 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:32 pm
Posts: 90
Location: Maryland
The word "Shaman" can be seen as a synonym. I use it for European languages. English is one of my five languages and I find it interesting how monolingual people will stress over the proper use or title of an abstract position. My family calls the position "Khogan".

I'm bored with this so I'll confess that it's been a while since I had a chance to pull a little coyote energy and I couldn't resist.
He went for it, hook, line and sinker, blinded by his witch hunt.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Wow, more examples of racism and encouraging racist stereotypes of Native American culture. Blaming the individual, refusing to take into account colonial history. Sounds very new age to me. You can keep your new age and I'll stick with my authentic tradition.

Racism and stereotypical as Shaman Hawk/Sid Hawkins just said of Native Americans: "Not only a good example of a loser mentality but an excellent example of what happens to a people when they go along with the "hand out" mentality of being taken care of by the government. You want to talk tradition yet bring up an example of people giving in and getting fat. Brilliant."

Maybe your friends and clients are interested in hanging out with a racist like yourself. Maybe they want "healing" from someone full of arrogant, ignorant hate. Good luck with that.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:35 pm 
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Lylse, you bring up a good example of choices.

But consider: why would someone, when presented with the choice of visiting a fake, inauthentic healer or a real authentic healer, choose to work with the fake or inauthentic? People claiming to be something they are not, making it up as they go along, unable to name their teachers or elders.

Consider it this way, in modern terms, would you want to be operated on by a real surgeon or a fake surgeon.

How would you react if you were operated on by someone who claimed to be a surgeon but made up their credentials?

The reason why authenticity is so important is because it could actually save your life.

Inauthentic shamans and healers like James Arthur Ray got three people killed.

It's that serious and important. Three innocent people died at the hands of a fake shaman warrior healer.

I refer to this article for outlining the dangers of cultural appropriation:
Death and the Plastic Shamans
http://rabble.ca/news/2011/07/death-and-plastic-shamans


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Location: Maryland
Yeah, that's me. Totally busted me out.

Bring down the white light and om yourselves into nirvana with some sprinkles of koombyah, my homies.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:53 pm 
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North wrote:
Lylse, you bring up a good example of choices.

But consider: why would someone, when presented with the choice of visiting a fake, inauthentic healer or a real authentic healer, choose to work with the fake or inauthentic? People claiming to be something they are not, making it up as they go along, unable to name their teachers or elders.


Again, who are we to say that such a choice would be wrong? It would be, for you or me, but maybe there's an important lesson to learn there for that particular individual. maybe he/she needs to learn about discerning between true or false, right or wrong.
Maybe that person isn't ready yet to be confronted with true power and needs to take little baby steps, gradually moving towards "the real deal". Maybe being exposed to a "real" shaman at the first go would cause that person's psyche more harm than good. There are more roads that lead to Rome. Some are just longer and more difficult :wink:

Quote:
Consider it this way, in modern terms, would you want to be operated on by a real surgeon or a fake surgeon. How would you react if you were operated on by someone who claimed to be a surgeon but made up their credentials?


Truth be told ... I tend to avoid any Western medicine like the plague. I treat my own dis-comforts, including the odd broken bone or two. No harm, no foul. Of course I don't mean to say that all Western medicine is "bad" but I have been exposed to some doctors with very good credentials who cocked up something fierce.

A piece of paper is just that, a piece of paper. It means somebody has managed to go from A to Z by a predetermined route. That is not, however, a guarantee that they have actually absorbed all the necessary skills and knowledge. Or even that they really know - or remember - how to apply that. Seen how some elderly (and even young) people drive? They have credentials as well. That could be the 60+ year old surgeon removing your appendix tomorrow.

I have encountered people who did not have such a piece of paper, yet were more knowledgeable in their specific field than any specialist. Bad example, as far as I'm concerned. Sorry.

Quote:
The reason why authenticity is so important is because it could actually save your life. ... Inauthentic shamans and healers like James Arthur Ray got three people killed.


Like I said, I do not concur with that. "Real" shamans kill as well sometimes. So do "real" surgeons, drivers, etc. Loads of "unreal" shamans manage to impart a sense of well being into people. Move them a little further along the road to enlightenment, as it were. In Medieval times, witches were as "unreal" as you can have it, yet in reality they saved many lives with their knowledge of herbal lore, and hexes.

You can have a line of 10 generations of medicine people preceding you, yet you may be the stupidest, most inadequate "healer" of all times. Preceding knowledge is an indication, not a guarantee. So is a piece of paper. It's an indication, not a guarantee. The same applies to lacking that same piece of paper.

Don't waste your energy on condemning people. Use it to prove yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:32 pm
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Location: Maryland
"Don't waste your energy on condemning people. Use it to prove yourself."
All of my cynicism and sarcastic kidding aside: This is one of the very few wise things I've read on this site.

Actions really are louder than words.


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 Post subject: Re:
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:17 am 
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Posts: 136
Apu Kuntur wrote:
...a material teacher has only marginally something to do with the abilities of the student.


Any good shaman will know deeply the abilities of their apprentice, and unblock them accordingly. Mine didn't, because she couldn't.


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 Post subject: Re:
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:21 am 
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barry wrote:
I am not expecting these teachers to respond to my challenge as they have no healing powers...


I had a very lousy teacher who managed to heal a blood blister on me instantly. The spirit that did it was also with me supposedly but never seemed to do what I asked.


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 Post subject: Re:
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:32 am 
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StoneCrow wrote:
Prayer by the way has been scientifically proved...


I don't mean to argue, but it has been proven that people who:

1 are not being prayed for,
2 are being prayed for but don't know it,
3 think they're being prayed for but aren't

do better than people who know they're being prayed for.

Science has no explanation for why knowing you're being prayed for makes you do worse while just thinking you are does nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:23 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:32 pm
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Location: Maryland
Here's an account of a healing I was part of a while ago. I wrote it as an example of Shamanic "healing" in that the Shaman helps creates and orchestrates the stage for the healing to take place.
"Agreement" may be a more accurate word in this case, and who knows, maybe even a first part of an evolutionary process.

http://blueplanetshaman.com/blog/2009/11/13/sweat-lodges-and-intuition/#more-275


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:25 pm
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Shaman Hawk wrote:
Here's an account of a healing I was part of a while ago. I wrote it as an example of Shamanic "healing" in that the Shaman helps creates and orchestrates the stage for the healing to take place.
"Agreement" may be a more accurate word in this case, and who knows, maybe even a first part of an evolutionary process.

http://blueplanetshaman.com/blog/2009/11/13/sweat-lodges-and-intuition/#more-275


That's very interesting, but isn't the whole premise of the shaman that on the supernatural level, they are able to create physical change in their client that wouldn't otherwise happen?

I'm intrigued, though.


Last edited by resonantD on Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:35 am
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Location: Chicago
resonantD wrote:
I will have committed suicide in a few weeks, probably. Not sure yet.


If you are feeling suicidal please talk to someone, the national suicide hotline is 1-800-273-TALK (8255). you can call them 24/7 their website is www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:25 pm
Posts: 136
One of my friends used to work that hotline and talks to me.

I don't feel sad or scared. I have no other mental illness.

I simply can not take being attacked by spirits five times a day for five years. It just happened again after you personal messaged me.

I can't do it.

I won't.

I'd rather burn my soul up in the sun and go out peacefully, which I will likely do, than be torn up and abused endlessly. I love the earth, but I have to leave.


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