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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:23 pm
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Location: Euclid, OH
I have been watching this disucssion for a while now and have some comments.

I agree with Forest Child - obviously you have movement (propulsion/anger) as a result of this "healing" that you received; I have no doubt that on some level, your payment of $1,000 has "bought" you something -- just not the something that you were expecting, it seems to me.

No one really "heals" another -- even if someone can make symptoms go away, in the long run, if the attitude of the "patient" does not change; if the circumstances of his or her life do not change; and mostly if they themselves put forth little to no effort TO change things, the "dis-ease" WILL RETURN. That is fact - there is no escaping it. Heck, I had carpel tunnel surgery about 10 years ago, and it "fixed" the problem for a time - but because I am still doing the same repetitive motion, my carpel tunnel syndome is back. It makes sense that it would be back, yes?

It works the same way for any kind of healing -- if the behavior/attitude, etc. does not change, the "illness" will return.

Another point I would like to touch upon is the concept of "exchange". I know that there is an ongoing and sometimes very "heated" debate about whether someone should "charge" for their services. Why is it that we feel that "lay people" should go ahead and charge, but "Spiritual" people should not? Where did that come from, I wonder?

The thing is, it's not so much a "charge for services rendered" as it is an exchange of energy between people. If the Healer is going to expend energy on working with a specific person to help them heal, isn't what they do and how they do it worth the exchange of energy? In our western society, money is really the only thing with value -- it is legal exchange in this society to pay money for services. The idea isn't to "buy" something here -- the idea is to sacrifice some energy for your own cause - and what in this society is more worth the sacrifice than the allmighty dollar?

Crowtalker


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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:23 pm
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Location: Euclid, OH
Another thing that I note -- there is a difference, I believe, between SHAMAN and HEALER. Both are "roles" as it were - SHAMAN being the "big picture" role encompassing ALL roles, and HEALER being a specific type of medicine person. When you go to a general practitioner, that person calls upon all of the tools in his or her toolbox in order to diagnose and treat something -- when you go to a specialist, that specialist is trained to know and use specific tools. When you go to SHAMAN, the idea is that the SHAMAN will get you what YOU NEED. Maybe not what you WANT or how you want it, but what you NEED. Maybe, Barry, it isn't so much that you need to be "healed" of something, or what you believe you need healing from -- maybe the lesson here from SHAMAN (who is NOT a "person" but a "breath of creation" that comes THROUGH a person) has something to do with busting your ego down to size; or teaching you something about "discernment" as opposed to "judgment".

Now, if you had gone to a "Healer" for a specific type of "dis-ease", you might have received a much different outcome.

A "fool and his money are soon parted", and if you honestly believe that all you have to do is pay someone money (the lust of which IS the root of evil) and poof! You're "cured", perhaps you are, indeed, in need of another type of lesson/healing??

Crowtalker


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:35 pm
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Sounds like there is some anger behind that. I agree that the shamans couldn't heal you. Shamans aren't Gods and can't always heal someone. Sometimes healing comes easily and sometimes it comes very hard. Sometimes it doesn't come at all. Any shaman that tells you that they heal 100% of everyone they come in contact with is lying. But they do some powerful healings from time to time.
In my experience I tried everything to find healing.
I tried religion and biblical beliefs and came up empty.

I had two shamans do a soul retreival and I have experienced a profound healing.
Sometimes there are some things that are just bad and wrong that can't be healed. I still have yet to see someone who is crippled be healed. I spent 30 years in Christian circles that claimed their God heals. In that 30 years I never saw someone healed of blindness or get out of a wheel chair. I've heard stories but I think that's all they are.
I would run from any religious or spiritual group that claims to heal the blind. They are probably a brainwashing cult, either that or they are like the healer in that movie "Something Wicked This Way Comes".


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:10 pm 
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Last edited by singularna on Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:25 pm
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Oooh baby do I have a LOT to say about this!

The lady who first acted as a "teacher" for me, was not necessarily what one would call "greedy". Rather, she was very caught up on "compassion" and healing, ect.

I worked with her for a few years but she and I were driven apart when I started to get attacked by spirits and her only response to it was that I should be detached from my own well-being. I could clearly tell that this attitude was a product of the spirits.

There is another woman shaman who has seen that this previous one has a very large chord on me and her spirits keep taking my power--without her knowing. But she WANTS to believe the things she believes. She didn't want the news I delivered. She WANTS to believe the spirits near her are beautiful helpers... not malicious predators that are trying to destroy be because I've called them out.

I still am getting attacked constantly.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:32 pm
Posts: 90
Location: Maryland
I served "in the field" of Shamanism for 40 years. By in the field I mean out with the people and projects and not hanging out in classrooms. The bitching and whining here...
"I challenge these false shamans to heal me, the ones that refuse or cannot heal, their students should consider whether this teacher is the one to teach them. Some of these teachers I have asked to heal and they refused, others I have been to their students with no success which obviously reflects the teacher`s ability." .....is getting to be all too common.

Let's do this by the numbers:
1. "I challenge these false shamans to heal me.." Now there's a good start. Good luck with that, anywhere.

2. "the ones that refuse or cannot heal," Refusal is a right for anyone in any field. Failure is always an option in any field.

3. I've always said that if you can't teach something, you don't know it. However, proficiency is in the student and how they use and build on your teachings.

News flash: Shamans die. Sometimes they die from illness. Hard to fathom, but true. I guess that could be seen as we are all fakes and were finally busted by Death.

I've done healings but would never claim it was from my abilities. I just set up the environment ( Sweat Lodge, circle, structure) and followed my gut with the rest but the one thing I made sure of was that the person wanted the healing and wanted to take charge of their life.
A person will speak about their illness by what they say directly-I have cancer, and how they see the healing by what they say indirectly-my friend was healed in a Sweat Lodge...with herbs...hands on..and that tells me how to proceed or whether to refer them to someone else.

Here's an example of how a "healing" can happen in what I see as a Shamanic way. Some may not see it so. This is from my blog http://blueplanetshaman.com/blog/2009/11/13/sweat-lodges-and-intuition/#more-275

To the person who started this thread: What are you doing to aid your healing?


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:14 pm 
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A shaman merges with their Helping Spirits and it is the Helping Spirit that brings healing and the shaman and the person receiving healing, do not know what the healing will actually look like, just as we do not know if there is a purpose to the "dis-ease". It is of extreme importance, and often a challenge, that the shaman not hold an intention of what is to be done by the spirits. There is a desire for a healing but who are we, as humans, to decide what that healing will be? Do we not learn from our challenges? Is there not the concept of Wounded Healer - a person who walks a path filled with physical or emotional challenges that bring them to becoming a healer themselves? The shaman has developed a strong and trusting relationship with their Helping Spirits, knowing that their Helping Spirit works with love and only positive intentions - but again, we do not know how that is to look. I have seen a time when a person did not receive healing, when the person spoke badly of the shaman for not having been healed - and it turned out that this was the healing for the person - to speak up to what that person perceived as an authority figure - this person moved into their own power. We are humans and cannot know what healing is to look like.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:23 pm 
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I am relatively new to Shamanism. I am a Reiki Master Teacher. I am disappointed that someone would put money ahead of healing someone. I don't care about money, I just want to help all my relations.

:mrgreen:

Greywolf


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:32 pm
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Location: Maryland
That's nice you don't care about money and just want to help out GreyWolf, but utilities, groceries, mortgages, rent and other stuff still needs to get paid.
A while back people brought us chickens, firewood, fish and whatever else we needed as an exchange. Now they bring us paper with dead guys painted on it.

Surely, Reiki Master, you understand the need for exchange.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:51 am
Posts: 32
Barry, I hear underneath what you're saying.

Shamans and "those who practice shamanism" who post on the web, having price lists, do distant healing, run courses and seminars and run around promoting themselves are not real shamans and don't perform real shamanism. That is why you are not finding what you are seeking.

Real shamans are honestly too busy within their own communities doing th good hard work to be selling themselves over the Internet. So you won't find what you're seeking there. You will only find frauds and rotten bones.

Real shamans don't advertize or promote. They are just too busy. I hope this helps relieve your anxiety as you can stop your fruitless Internet search.

Be well.

Oh, and by the way. Shamans (and those who practice shamanism) don't heal. They don't "do" anything, the spirits do. Shamans are just mediators.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:51 am
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Here is a very important fraud warning about Shaman Hawk aka Sid Hawkings. You can read it for yourself.

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2304.0;wap2


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:32 pm
Posts: 90
Location: Maryland
Hey North. I'd like see where these things are listed in my blog, or anywhere else. Feel free to share the link to those comments and accusations and anything else. Don't hold back sweetie.

News flash: Anyone with anytime in the public light in any capacity inevitably gets negative coverage. There are always those who will put you on a pedestal just to try to knock you off.

Then there are those like we see here who don't have anything to go on but gossip, which is really shameful on a site allegedly following Shamanism.
Keep setting a good example.

Oh yeah, I don't follow anyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:51 am
Posts: 32
If you claim you're from the Seneca and Mohawk tradition, then who is your mother and what is your clan?

I'm checking with the Seneca and Mohawks of Six now, too, to see if they know your mother or your mother's family and clan.

Because obviously if you were from either lineage, you would never dishonor your own mother with your "sex magic" teachings since that does not exist in that Algonkan teaching.

Unless you get your sex magic side from the Celtic tradition you follow? Who would be your "sex magic" teacher be?


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:32 pm
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Location: Maryland
Let me help you out. The world's not flat. Shamanism is about evolving with the times. Traditionalism and dogma are bed buddies. The yah yah hey hey dogma of the "White Boy Approved" card carrying indians is not Shamanism but if you want to keep on with the great raven flapping his wings and creating the universe and that other crap you go at it and stay in the stone age.
Let me guess. The thought of sex magik is offensive to you cuz you're fat and can't get it up.

You keep digging and asking about me. Be sure to post it with all the reliable sources. Meanwhile I'll be doing real Shamanism while I help start and maintain community gardens, organic farms, feed people and manage green projects that employ tens of thousands while cutting massive amounts of pollution from fossil fuels, and teach around the planet.

I hope I'm standing beside you when Spirit has us recount our deeds for the people. Wouldn't be surprised if the only deed you have is to tell him what you allegedly found out about me. Ooooo.

Amazing, the stupid stuff I read at this site.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware of False Teachers of Shamanism
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:51 am
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Ok, let's break your post down Sid Hawkins/Shaman Hawk.

First off, I don't see how your language and macho-attitude proves anything in this conversation regarding if you're a fraud, as you said: "Let me guess. The thought of sex magik is offensive to you cuz you're fat and can't get it up."

Let's talk about your insult about my supposed "fatness". If you were at all connected to any Indigenous culture in North America, you wouldn't be calling anyone fat. Why? Because it shows your utter lack of cultural connection or sense of context to the high rates of diabetes within Native communities.

It shows a complete lack of respect and a lack of understand of any traditional culture. You're either that mean to pick on people for their weight, neglecting to factor in the devastating effects that diabetes has on traditional communities or you have no connection (or appreciation) of Native culture.

Also, if you are truly of the Seneca or Mohawk tradition, you again would not be insulting people with such language, under the Great Law. But like I said, how would you know since you know nothing of Seneca or Mohawk culture.

You’re also a racist.

I wonder is one of your top criteria for being a shaman? Do you train others to be racist, too? Because only a racist would say “that other crap you go at it and stay in the stone age.”

By implying here that Indigenous culture and tradition are “stone age”, you are implying that it is primitive in nature. Do you know – and maybe you don’t – that sentiment was paramount in the mind of colonizers and the Christian church as they attempted to destroy Aboriginal North Americans. If you actually knew something about Native culture, you would have never said such a thing.

It is interesting here because at first I was thinking you just didn’t care about Indigenous cultures. But I actually realize you must know absolutely nothing about Native culture to say such things. This goes further to your refusal to answer the question regarding who was your Seneca or Mohawk traditional teacher.

Respected healers and shaman have no shame in their practice and are not shameful of who they studied under, thus they openly speak the names of their teachers since they have nothing to hide.

I think you can’t say the names of your Mohawk or Seneca teachers because you don’t have any. This again proves that you know nothing about the Indigenous cultures you speak about.

Thus, you must rely on insults and puff your chest in your macho-sexuality.

This also proves Barry’s point. It is lying frauds like yourself that are so dangerous to the concept of Indigenous healing work and shamanism. No wonder Barry is so frustrated.


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