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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:19 pm
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Location: North America
I can attest, based upon years-long personal experience, to the fact that there is nothing "false" about the shamans and their colleagues who comprise the Circle of Tengerism. CoT was founded by shamans who are deeply devoted to the preservation of their ancient traditions and who have dedicated their lives in service to the spirits. I have personally received genuine healing from them and know them to be very honorable people and skilled shamans. I cannot begin to tell you how offensive your unfounded, unbridled accusations are. What absolute madness that the problem of false shamans is so real, vast, and serious and somehow you have ended up accusing some of the very people who are most disrespected by such charlatans and who are working the hardest to bring this problem to light.


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 Post Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:56 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:29 am
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Location: London
Utalga

If what you are saying is true why did Byambadorj charge me $1000 for a healing and then does not perform it and the CoT were not interested. This does not sopund like true shamans to me, I find their actions very offensive.
They took advantage of someone desperately requesting healing. Also if these shamans are genuine why do they need licenses? I find it absurd that a shaman would need a piece of paper to show he has been chosen by the spirits.


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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:36 am 
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Location: London
Utalga

If there are genuine shamans in the CoT, please can you tell me who they are and I will try them?


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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:54 pm
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Location: Durango / Ignacio, Colorado
The Circle of Tengerism is based in the U.S. and does not have control of any shamans associations in Siberia, though they know one-another.

Blessings,
~Nick


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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:14 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:29 am
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Location: London
Does anyone know the contact address for the Golomt Centre in Ulanbaatar please? Then I will contact them about Byambadorj as he is a member of that society.


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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:26 am
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Location: Bavaria, Germany
http://www.owc.org.mn/tivdelhii/eng/golomt/index.htm

Here is the Website of the Golomt-Center. A simple google-inquiry got the result.

So then, slowly Barry learns why distance healing is not a choice.


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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:22 am 
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Location: London
Apu Kuntur

Thank you for the website of Golomt Centre. You say it is simple to find, that is because you have not got something preventing you doing anything. And would you believe it, the Centre`s e-mail address does not work. I will have to try telephoning them.


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 Post Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:17 pm
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In many traditional societies, shamans did charge for their services, as did my Chinook ancestors. We had a monetary system using hykwa, decorative strands of dentalium shells. These hykwa were quite valuable. In Northwest Coast societies trade was a way of life, and buying, selling and bartering was everything. Hykwa was used along the entire Northwest Coast. A slave could be bought for two strands and a shaman charged three or four for his services. I am not saying that everything a shaman did was charged for, but many services were. Most North American tribes had standard fees for shamanic and medicine services. It irks me when I see people make such comments like those charging for shamanic services are frauds.

The only service a shaman NEVER charged for was instruction. The only charge an apprentice ever received was his time and assistance in his teachers work while he was apprenticing.


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 Post Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:44 am 
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Location: London
Shaman_Couger

I am not saying because a shaman charges he is false, I am referring to those that charge an excessive amount and then do not perform the healing as in the case of Byambadorj. Having said that I still would have paid Byambadorj his $1000 if he could have healed this. It is not so much the amount it is that he never did the healing.


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 Post Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:17 pm
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Barry,

I am sorry to hear that you had such a bad encounter. That kind of stuff does make a bad reputation for all of us. A shaman should be honest – always. One that isn’t will loose his connection to spirit eventually. A shaman should not be greedy and take money for money’s sake. A shaman should be honest enough from the onset to acknowledge whether or not they are able to take the “case”. Speaking for myself, I guarantee my work and am willing to return if the service was not completed satisfactorily at absolutely no cost (which I have only had to do once in my 20 years of practice, and that was under extenuating circumstances – thank the spirits). I have from time to time, turned down a client, but made reasonable efforts to help find someone who could help them.


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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:35 pm
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Location: Stafford Springs ,CT US
Hello Barry, How is your problem? Is it getting worst are you having any bad dreams? Your brother is he doing any better. I journeyed yesterday I was in the lower world. I was sitting in my usual spot when I heard some wrestling in the tree line behind me.My hawk friend flew in and came outwith a hat red in color.I walked over to the edge of the forest and saw you . You started to run. I started to run after you to see if everything was alright.When I got to the spot were I saw you . There you were laying on the grass I turned and watched the other you running through the forest. You were not breathing and your body was still warm but your Spirit was gone. Barry I feel that if you don't resolve this problem that's going on you are going to start getting sick. I know it's hard admitting to yourself and to others that there is nothing wrong with Barry. Maybe the wrong kind of attention that you are used to will go away. And this negative way of life that your use to will start to crumble. But believe me it's all you my friend . And like I said before you are the one that has to step up to the plate and want to heal and change .Barry I hope you do this before it's to late in this lifetime. If there is anything I can help you with please ask. Many Blessings, Jim


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:58 am
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Location: UK
Barry, I am not a shaman. I am reading this thread because I have an interest in shamanism. I appreciate what you have to say, but feel that you have very high expectations of what is possible through healing.

I have suffered with depression in the past and, in my experience, recovering from it was (and still is) an ongoing process of growth, self exploration and self forgiveness. Had I read that whilst I was in a depressed state, I would probably have dismissed it, perhaps you are now. But, you should understand that I am speaking to you as one freshly returned from the abyss with a clear vision of the path I have walked.

I remember well the feeling of being totally blocked at every turn, that the harder I tried to achieve something the more barriers would be put in my way. That the more I asked for help the less people could hear or wanted to hear. I am writing to you, Barry, to promise you that there is hope. It may be impossible for you to see it from your present perspective but with effort and courage, you will reacha place where you can see it too.

I am not suggesting it is easy to break the inertia that is holding you, but I am assuring you that it is possible. Once the movement is begun, the journey becomes increasingly easy. There is a Chinese proverb: 'The hardest step of a thousand mile journey is the first'

The primary method I used to begin my healing journey was a simple tool of exploration and catharsis. Every day, first thing on getting out of bed, I do automatic writing. Stream of conciousness, unthought-out, as the thoughts come to my mind they go straight on the paper. I write until I have filled 3 pages.

This may appear ridiculous to you at the moment, but for me, it has enabled a profound level of healing and insight. Try it. Start now. What have you got to loose? See how you get on with it. It took me a while to come to really enjoy the process. At first it was tough, painful. It's easy to make excuses not to do it, but realise that these are only ways of avoiding the process that will ultimately help you to heal yourself.

Keep the writings but do not read them and do not let anyone else read them. It is very important that as you write you are totally free to express your mind without fear of being judged, criticised or ridiculed. So the one and only rule is, do not read or allow to be read.

At first my writing was full of vitriol and darkness, then false hopes that led me nowhere, only to dissapointment and frustration. Then I began to hear a new voice, from deep inside, long buried. My innocent child self began to reemerge. Encourage this, your child knows you as you truely are. Let him speak.

As you get more used to the process, you will begin to catch yourself falling into negative thought spirals, eventually training yourself out of that habit. Here, for me at least, was the key that opened the door to new hope. When I refused to continue the habit of negative thinking my life changed. I know you are irritated by suggestions that negative mind states are causing your problems rather than spirits influence, but I have two things about that. First, that I am not suggesting that negative thoughts are the cause, merely that not engaging in them helps you to deal with the problem. Second, that in Chinese medicine (Rooted firmly in shamanism) there is no separation between Mind and Spirit. The word 'Shen' can be translated as either Mind or Spirit and each is considered to influence and shape the other.

So, as I said at the beginning, Barry, this is an ongoing process that we have to engage with ourselves. By all means seek help from others, whether they be shamans, acupuncturists, priests, yogis, whatever takes your fancy. I feel it is important to remain aware that some may help you enormously, some may hinder you (even those well intentioned ones), but none can make the journey for you.

It is up to you to make the first step, Barry.

Yours with absolute sincerity.
Zen

Bon Voyage! :D


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:57 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:50 am
Posts: 44
Location: Pennsylavania
What is the common denominator here? A string of opinions about people who have dedicated their lives to helping people and changing the world or a person not getting what he wants in the way he demands it.

Shaman "Eat this it will make your belly feel better."
Patient "It smells bad and I think you are a fake"
Shaman <smiling and walking away>
Patient " See you are a fake"
Shaman <down the block helping the next person>
Shaman "Eat this it will make your belly feel better."
New Patient. "Thank you"
Shaman <smiling and walking away>

I think everyone gets the picture.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:31 am 
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 5:02 am
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Location: oxfordshire
I just want to say that you can't go to a shaman and say 'heal me'. Shamans don't heal people, hopefully their helping spirits bring the cure and you need to do some work to integrate this into your life, this is the healing. I'm sorry you got ripped off.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:16 pm
Posts: 260
Location: NW UK
But did Byambador and his spirits really fail to heal? From what I read from healers here who know you Barry, you seem to have made a change. The $1000 distance healing feels like it was the very thing you needed to make you think about the value of healing and how much change is required.

Traveler1400 hits the nail on the head. Each time you experience what feels like the same old problem, and you find yourself saying "why me, why does the same stuff always happen to me"? then you have to look at the common denominator and thats you. I've been there and bought the T shirt!

If $1000 bucks got you to shout and get angry, take your own power back, stand up and shake your fist and say to yourself "I'm worth more than this" then it worked!

Shamanism is often subtle and the spirits love a giggle at our expense.

Rejoice in the magnificent human being which is you Barry and see if the spirits who work with Byambador will continue to help aid your recovery? Healing often takes place over months or years so perhaps the 'magic answer' you are looking for which will take all your problems away without you having to do anything isn't available for you and the spirits are forcing you to change and learn as you go.

As far as the person who's spirits told them to stop healing and teach . . . meh! Whatever. It could be true, it could be that this person is going through their own 'healing' and learning right now and they may return to healing in the future. Could also be, as you say, someone in an ivory tower. Part of our path in this life is to discern the wheat from the chaff and if your intuition tells you that they are not the right person for you to be with then fine - walk away.


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