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 Post subject: Therianthropic Shamanism without Shamanistic Journeying
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:53 pm 
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Location: Ohio
((Edit: I altered the title after realizing the mistake I made in the terminology for any of those who happened to notice))

I know, the title sounds a bit confusing at first glance. Trying to interlace several concepts into one string of thought as a title for a thread can be a bit of a conundrum. Bare with me here though cause I'm about to explain my title, and the explanation is probably even more insidious than the title.

Okay for starters I'm new here, and to that I say, "hi." Now that my introduction is over I will proceed into my elaborate inquiry.

I am a Therian. And for those of you who don't know what theirianthropy is I suggest a quick google search on the word. Wiki actually has a very nicely compounded explanation of it. Going further into the subject matter I would further clarify that unlike many other therians who tend to identify themselves with the wolves and felines, avians and occasionally ursa and other various beasts. I identify among the same family as my own human genealogy, simian. Though to be very precise with my meaning; Human are derived, biologically speaking, from apes, and my therioside is that of the Monkey, more specifically I identify with the New World Monkey's (I'm leaning primarily towards Squirrel Monkey although I'm leaving my mind open to other possible specific species if I ever find a perfect fit.)

To can any of you debunking science nerds and nay-sayer's out there Monkeys are about as genetically separate from humans as just about any other mammal in the animal kingdom....save for the Apes...(I think the numbers are somewhere around the 95%-ish area...don't quote me on that as I don't really research these things a lot...not interested in it...) What I am interested in however is my therioside and its relation to me when I intertwine the therianthropic nature with shamanism.

Once again I must subject you to a clarification that I have only recently begun to study shamanism in a somewhat more formal manner, (if one could even say shamanism is a formal practice,) and by the definition of formal I speak of, I merely mean entertaining myself with the understandings of shamanism as described to me through literature. In other words I'm reading a few books on the subject. Which is odd for me cause I hate reading books.

With that under the belt I continue into saying that in the literature I have partaken in it was noted throughout the book to remember to keep ones mind open to new possibilities in life, and that there really was no one set way or manner in which things could be done. However as I read the material I realized that virtually everything they discussed in the various aspects of shamanism I myself already had a rather strongly defined intuitive grasp on, and frequently applied to my own life. However there was one generic aspect to it that I seemed to deviate from but yet I still, despite not having that 'normal' flow, still managed through.

That deviation of which I speak of is the notion that I myself have never once had any "formal" Shamanistic Journeying. Not once have I ever encountered a totem animal who has taken me down the tunnels that so many speak of. I have had over a hand full of personal visions/elaborate dreams generally during my sleep, however a few, more recently, have been when I was completely wide awake. Among the handful one, one of those dreams had any notion of a totem/spirit guide in it.

The one vision/dream that did entail a totem spirit gave me no instruction as to how to use any techniques or any such nature, he simply told me I had to wait for some major events to come, major events I had been at the time quiet anxious to have happen then and there.

I have never been able to formally induce myself into a trance to partake in a vision-quest. I've never had a formal 'spirit guide' teach me the methods by which I now partake in to aid myself, (grounding, spirit cleansing, aural shifting, elemental bonding, power-spots, and beyond) I sense other peoples auras, and nature, without ever "seeing" any visual aura, and I am able to manipulate my own aura enough to help aid others around me and generate positive mood fluxes in my environment. I completely understand these techniques entirely through my own intuition.

My first question is the notion of one undergoing shamanism without the eloquently described visual/sensual journeys that virtually everyone else seems to identify with, does one think it possible, (perhaps limited until one reaches a balance with such aspects?)? Or are my experiences some how no longer deemed "shamanistic" because I have a limited visual experience, or because they are based through a therianthropic nature as in I myself being the monkey instead of having an actual monkey totem?


In recent times I have discovered that my therioside no longer exists as a separate spirit sharing my body with me but has at some point over a period of time actually bonded with me, (contherian is the formal terminology). Since then I have had several visions, while wide awake, eyes open, and in one case driving a car. Both my visions entailed a third being existing within me. While the details of the vision I shall maintain to myself for the moment my question is now, does the fact that I have bonded with my animal perchance remove the notion of requiring AS deep a relaxed state of consciousness for me to access my intuitively creative visions?


Finally, under all this rubble, if you do some how at least agree with my side of the first inquiry, do you believe that the notion of the connection with the web-of-life relays more so to ones intuitive nature than to their ability to visually see it?


Last edited by BetaSwimmer on Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:34 pm 
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Location: Wales
Good Luck

i can see you are very gifted but dont give yourself all the credit there are greater forces at work here.

here is what i wrote before i properly read your article perhaps my emotions have something to say so i felt it best not to delete these [i mean no offence by them] :-

[one of the only things that separates shamanism from other healing methods is journeying it is neccesary,you are only a shaman if you journey without you are just a regular healer. i do agree with you though, there is no need for a formal vision quest but it helps most people the same thing applies to spirit guides and other methods of obtaining information spiritually
books and videos are not replacement teachers for the ones we are given by nature if we ask.]

StoneCrow...
if it works its right but it still may not be perfect


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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:51 pm
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Location: Ohio
Greater forces at work is an understatement in my own opinion.

Aside from whats coming over the horizon, which I will save for another topic entirely...After some clarification from another thread on a different site over 'Shamanic journeying' and 'Vision question', (least on a technical level) I think I have a better picture of what it is I've been really asking in my head. I think ultimately what I'm questioning is more so along the lines of why I cannot formally undergo the basic visions seeking the spirit animal for aid in learning things, yet I think it's for the most part told me already what I need to know, as you've mentioned through myself and external forces.

So saying that the basic teachings through totemic animals and spirit guides is not perhaps the defining feature, however journeying as a whole is how you particularly define it. To which I entail what your perspective is on journeying. As I mentioned before I had two particular visions this summer that have me particularly intrigued over myself as they seem to be indicating to myself something major I myself will have to go through in the future in regards to enlightening myself further...

Ultimately I have my perspective(s) on my own situation, however I'm merely extending my curiosity out to attempt to gather other's perspectives through which to enlighten my own with.


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 Post subject: Re: Therianthropic Shamanism without Vision-questing
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:12 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:42 am
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Location: Alexandria, Virginia USA
ok, BetaSwimmer, greetings to you. Now, let's take this a little slower:

BetaSwimmer wrote:
My first question is the notion of one undergoing shamanism without the eloquently described visual/sensual journeys that virtually everyone else seems to identify with, does one think it possible? Or are my experiences some how no longer deemed "shamanistic" because I have a limited visual experience, or because they are based through a therianthropic nature as in I myself being the monkey instead of having an actual monkey totem?

I think it would help IMMENSELY if you got out of your head. But since that's not going to happen, then for you, you do not necessarily have to have the intense visual/sensual journeys in order to have a shamanic vision. Your visions will come in the form of words and thoughts.

Monkey is in your life because it deals with communication. And yes, you are now Monkey - that is one of the ways power animal connect into the shaman's life. Your life energy and that of the power animal meld and become one.

And this is also the reason your thoughts and ability to verbalize them are so strong (left brain dominant), as opposed to being dominated by the right brain, which is more visual and has no language.

BetaSwimmer wrote:
...my question is now, does the fact that I have bonded with my animal perchance remove the notion of requiring AS deep a relaxed state of consciousness for me to access my intuitively creative visions?

no, but I really discourage you from doing this while driving your car. Sometimes, these altered states of consciousness bring such a startling realization that you may drive off the road. Not something that is healthy, regardless of your state of mind.

BetaSwimmer wrote:
Finally, ...do you believe that the notion of the connection with the web-of-life relays more so to ones intuitive nature than to their ability to visually see it?

If you are standing in conversation with someone, and you close your eyes, are they still there? Of course they are. The same goes for the connectedness of everything. Just because you cannot see it (or sense it for that matter), doesn't mean it isn't there. Our limited abilities do not allow us to see the entire color spectrum or hear/feel/smell/taste/know beyond our range of experience or ability. But it's out there!


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 Post Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:36 pm 
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no, but I really discourage you from doing this while driving your car. Sometimes, these altered states of consciousness bring such a startling realization that you may drive off the road. Not something that is healthy, regardless of your state of mind.


><

Wasn't like I intentionally asked for any visions while driving...luckily it only happened for like 2 seconds (real time)...

Actually its funny you mentioned getting out of my head cause that's lately one of the things I've been focusing on is not relying quiet so much on my dominant function of my head but trying to get my gut to work a little more. (And frankly my solar plexus has some issues I'm still trying to fix from some long term damage...)


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 Post Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:06 pm 
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BetaSwimmer wrote:
Quote:
...I've been focusing on not relying on my dominant function of my head but get my gut to work a little more.[/size]

actually that's quite humorous, given that you work in a deli!

Many times the head takes control and over analyzes the journey. Then it becomes a process and loses the magic of shamanism. Most times, that gut reaction is accurate - and then the head kicks in with the "Yeah, but.." reasoning. It's a struggle, and well worth it as long as you can tell that guy in your head to shut up for a few minutes and just watch.


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 Post Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:42 pm 
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Precisely. Well I mean my head is usually only wrong once I start second guessing myself...then I know I've lost the connection and as I like to say "Murphy's Law" Kicks in and gives me a punch in the face...which sucks when I'm at work...cause that usually means I'm about to get hit with a huge rush of people...or the irate-angry people.

Funny thing about it all...Last summer I happened upon a psychic fair in a local psychic bookstore...curiosity nagged me to finally head over and check it out...see if I could find anything interesting, (at the time I was particularly curious as to the notion of finding anybody else who had even heard of theriahthropy, although even to this day...only the random people I run into know therianthropy...seems no one in the psychic book stores knows of it.)

Getting to my point, however, I did find one thing that interested me...they had a machine set up that was supposedly designed to measure small emp waves off of our electrical impulses on our hand and from that determine our 'Aura map'. Skeptical but curious I went through with it. It was surprisingly accurate in my personal opinion. Least it nailed me perfectly.

It measured the individual 7 'chakra' points on a percentage scale where 50-65% was optimum level, showed a physical map with the colors indicating where imbalances were at, and had a series of like 50 mini charts indicating individual organ outputs.

No surprise to myself In the mini charts I was superb in everything except like 4 organs. The numbers were above average and perfectly steady. Stomach, lymph nodes, Intestines and I think Gall bladder. Stomach and intestines were the worse....

In congruence with those numbers was the map showing green throughout most of my body except a sharp purple from my stomach/solar plexus, a blood red from my neck, and a fairly blue to indigo color overwhelming the head.

The woman interpreting the data to me indicated that for my neck the best way for me to help my lymph nodes was to, (and I warn you I'm not kidding she said it,) go jumping or climbing. The stomach, as I explained to her was having huge indigestion issues, and she and I agreed that my diet was the primary issue in that area. I have since fixed much of the indigestion issue, but still have the occasional stomach pains if I drink too much soda or 'high fructose corn syrup' (Unfortunately Its hard to find much to drink out side of water that doesn't have corn syrup.)

What I still find amusing to this day however is what happened when she looked at the percentage numbers in congruence with the map...particularly at my eye and crown chakra. The numbers were 71% and 72% which according to their basis was way over the optimum level, (50-65%). She turned to me asking if I got headaches a lot. 'nope' I swear she gaped at me for a solid minute. I told her I rarely get headaches, usually only due to sinus congestion, and I can't physically get pain based migraines, (silent migraines, aka aura migraines). After that she noted that I needed to balance the blue into more of a green, draw away from intuition as much and try to focus on sensing/memorizing aspects in my mind, which is probably a good indication as to why I have issues with getting vivid visions. Although I know she was shocked to see someone with such a high number particularly in intuition and not suffer from any headache issues.


Oh and to make a clarification...as much as I truly desire to own the title of Monkey, I've been told by my vision(s) I can't take the title yet...


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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:55 pm 
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Location: Australia
Greetings Betaswimmer

Rachara El has some very good advice for you.
May I also add a comment or three...

There is the logical vs reason battle in the mind at times of imminent change in "altitude" . If you can imagine being in a rocket just before it takes off from the ground, everything is calm and yet chaotic at the same time because of anxiety. When the rocket starts up and begins to lift off the ground the pressure can be immense and just like a steam cooker bubbling away can explode with a miriad of thoughts and analysis in more than normal quantities to justify the pressure and bring balance. When you describe "the monkey" it reminds me of the monkey mind which is clever and at the point of almost going out of control. It is very inmportant to recognise the edge of the cliff and remember not to take the extra step that will change the dynamics entirely. Standing at the cliff edge is a similar experience to the rocket before it starts up and lifts off the ground. And the difference is that if you have the textbook knowledge and ideas that is great but without the technology of the rocket boosters and wings and guidance system and importantly BRAKES the two flying experiences will be entirely different. One successful and the other.... well.... just apply the brakes before the cliff edge.... OKAY...?!

So yes.... step out of your analytical side for a while and plant some flowers in the garden, mow the lawn and prune the trees and just "BE" without thinking too much..... The result if you dont..... brain meltdown.... Been there done that.... Wouldnt recommend it.

with respect
Elizabeth


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