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 Post subject: Re: The Difference between Imagination and 'Journeying'
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:39 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:39 am
Posts: 6
blackanimism wrote:
Mielikki and brothermichael both clarified the issue i think.

I was wondering if I could comment on what brothermichael had said about shadow power animals. I have noticed a large amount of variation in my own journeying, not so much in the visual but more so in the feelings that go along with 'negative' visions. My perception may be different, especially because my main contact in the upper world is a disturbing looking character (death) who always approaches me with the opposite feelings in which I might call brotherly love. In this respect I think the point is that what is bad must also be accepted. Maybe I am too young to understand the entirety of it, but lately I think the more disturbing visions I have had are pointing towards an acceptance of life in the middle world just as you have said, but that I view disturbing encounters as a positive thing because of their importance in my own growth (here I mean in the lower world of course). My opinion is that those who force their journeys to always focus on the bright side of life are never able to comprehend both sides, I'd rather not mention the ying and the yang but that's an easy example for a new comer reading things.

There is nothing wrong with mentioning the yin an yang . there is a Positive/negative charge in every atom and in every blood cell. There is dark/light feminine/ masculine .

Good and evil is a creation of man . There is , when broken down to the base only positive charge and negative charge.
A man that kills out of greed or does something much worse isn't evil . He wasn't born evil his cells didn't start to divide during his creation in an evil way . Something happened and the man became "broken" either in the womb or after birth or sometime during his life . Influences can come from many places and dimensions that may cause this to happen spiritually physically or mentally its the job of the healer or shaman to fix said energy imbalance .
Seeing an evil symbol during a journey could simply be a manifestation of how you are feeling about something .
With out yang or negative masculine energy you wouldn't be alive and the world and universe wouldn't exist. To accept it is your only option or you could not journey, you could not heal, you could not cleanse, you could not awaken.

 Post subject: Re: The Difference between Imagination and 'Journeying'
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:49 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:23 am
Posts: 120
Location: UK
blackanimism wrote:
comment on what brothermichael had said about shadow power animals.

Good insights, blackanimism! Our consciousness has access to a range of archetypal forms in the "great unconscious" [spirit world or collective unconscious]. The ones that it attaches to ["loves"] at this time, form our personal "owned" self-identity but we can be drawn to others according to the impetus [kinetic energy] of our "soul path", but also by our current and "unhealed/unresolved past" life experiences.

The unhealedness/unresolvedness of past traumatic experiences can result in self-attacking energies such as self-resentment, guilt and self-hatred. If we cannot change/clear these uncomfortable feelings at the time we will "push them out of our mind" into "our shadow", but they are dynamic energies that want to move, so they will "animate" related archetypal forms [images]. This is because energy is always associated with "vibrational information" and this is perceived by us as images including the extrasensory images of people or animals that appear in our dreams and journeys.

Your great insight is that these self-threatening, animated archetypal images need to be ACCEPTED i.e. owned/integrated into our consciousness before they can be transformed.

The second step in transforming them [into either quietly sinking
away OR becoming useful resources] is to become aware of the "feeling" or "impulse" energetic charge that is activating them and which can be safely discharged or transformed in a safe process of "cathartic release":

Self-attacking or self-threatening archetypes are not only appearing in our dreams they are also tainting our everyday communications and behaviour, because they are being very subtly - or maybe not very subtly! - expressed in our life. We will not be aware of this, but some other people around us, will be aware and will have given us feedback about it, but it did not seem real to us so we will usually reject what they are saying!

These self-sabotaging dream or journey figures can often be transformed from self-sabotaging into self-enhancing via cathartic and psychotherapeutic practices. For example self-hatred can be transformed into self-purification.

A common mistake in shamanic practice is that, due to primitive instinctual reactiveness, the self-threatening figures in journeys get attacked or "expelled" [only to return later in the same - or an even worse (due to the additional aggressive energy they have been given] form.

 Post subject: Re: The Difference between Imagination and 'Journeying'
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:40 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:05 am
Posts: 65
Ah very good, I will check out those links more thoroughly. I haven't exactly mastered the change through catharsis part that you mentioned, this does take a lot of time. It can be difficult to find people who have not fallen so far into dualism that they can see the benefit of these kinds of experiences.

 Post subject: Re: The Difference between Imagination and 'Journeying'
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:15 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:19 pm
Posts: 184
Hi Mike,

It's only been very recently that I am taking a much closer look at Shaminism, and what it all means, so I'm not sure I can be of much help.

When I read of some of fantastic journeys some people have, and even your journeys, my first reaction is to want to put pressure on myself to have the kind of journeys that are more dramatic, so that I can be sure it really happened.

Because I believe that the mind, for all of us, exists within but also beyond three dimensional reality, so all of our thoughts are also interdimensional.

Interdimensionality is normal, when looked at from that point of view.

I have never met fairies, spirit guides, angels, or anything like that during my waking moments, waking journeys or anything like that. If they appear in my dreams, they are just characters in a dream to me.

I think the closest I actually come to Shamanic journeying, aside from when I'm sleeping, is when I am dancing.

The aim when I'm dancing is never to transcend my experience of reality, but it happens more often than not.

When it happens, it's mostly visual and sensorial. The sun interacts with me, and I with it. The ravens often start doing sky acrobatics outside my window when I am dancing, or the will swoop by to say hello, or call out. But that's actually really happening. I see it as dancing, flying or maybe journeying with them.

There's often a very amped up feeling of electricity around me, during those times, which I find baffling.

I often see lights of all kinds. Sometimes there are light relfections on the wall that have no source.

Maybe the veil gets thinner during those times.

Maybe there's a lot more that I'm not seeing.

But I never seem to go to places.

If Shaminism is about healing, I suspect that maybe most of the time the changes in perception are somewhat more subtle and maybe we adjust ourselves in a subtle way for optimum health.

Maybe more dramatic breakthroughs are called for when more than a subtle shift in energy is needed?

Just tossing out some guesses here. Not sure if this helps you, but it's been a helpful exercise for me, grappling with this topic.

Thanks for bringing it up.

 Post subject: Re: The Difference between Imagination and 'Journeying'
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:37 pm 

Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 3:28 am
Posts: 9
Mielikki wrote:
Shamanism is not something you take out when needed, it is a way of life, a sertain wiev of the world(s), it is something you ARE not something you DO. To start with journeying is to start at the wrong end, in my opinion.

My heart moved when I read this - it is so true. I have been healing as a shaman for many years and only recently started to do journey work with people in a neo-shamanic way. I do this because it is accessible for people who otherwise find shamanic healing weird or strange. I find that people have real and profound experiences with journeying. It is the reality and the affect of these experiences that makes journeying different from simple imagination.

I have recently been looking into this and see many similarities between journey work and hypnosis / subliminal psychology and the work of people like the mentalist Derren Brown. However the important point is that it must be done sincerely, with heart and with Spirit, and that people benefit from it. This is what I believe.

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