Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ

Board index » General Discussion » Shamanic Journeys




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Spiral and beetle..
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:41 am
Posts: 13
One of my many experiences rendered in amateurish poetic form..

Reading at home alone, relaxing on a cold winters day,
I saw a large black beetle appear on the floor, not 6 feet away.
Slowly it walked in a circle from right to left, spiraling in,
leaving a thick red track on the carpet where it was walking.
Three times round and round into the center of the spiral it sped,
wherein it stood up on its legs, arms reaching above its head.
Then it sank slowly, disappearing totally into the floor
and with that motion I too sank deep, like I was no more.
Next thing I knew, I was pulled by the arms through a hole,
bright light from above blinding my eyes but filling my soul.
And there I was standing and smiling with two others;
two scantily clad, young and healthy Amerindian brothers.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:17 pm
Posts: 95
Hey... Are you a palero by any chance?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:41 am
Posts: 13
Yes; Briyumba con Mayombe and Masongo lin es

But I've had experiences such as the one described all my life. They have nothing to do with Palo.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:17 pm
Posts: 95
Let me warn you ahead of time. Most practitioners here will not like Palo Mayombe as much as you might expect. I am by no means a "real" or "authentic" palero, but I call my own practice Palo Mexica. I'm sure or at least I think that you will say that my proposed tradition is not palo at all. But let me tell you that i'm influenced by Palo but don't claim to be a palero myself. But I have much respect for it. The thing is that most people will immediately associated Palo Mayombe with evil sorcery and witchcraft, but that aspect of the whole is just a small pieace of what Palo really is. I have respect for Palo as it is a shamanistic and animistic religion.

My own religion centers on the worship and veneration of the aztec gods through a prenda or caldero, or as you call it you nganga. But I have not gone through a rayamiento for fear that the aztec gods will smite me for being unfaithful to them by worshiping the Mayombero powers. But still, I have much respect for those traditions and know enough about them to say that I am at least aware of its influence over my own path. Palo Mexica to me means a syncretic union of prenda worship and use in magick mixed with guatemalan shamanism as well as core shamanic practices. In my system, there are two types of practitioners: the daykeeper and the journeyer. To master both of these would make you a master at Palo Mexica.

The daykeeper keeps the count of days on the sacred Cholq'ij calendar and knows when to time prenda rituals on certain days that are best for whatever task lay before the nahualli, in my case of course. The journeyer goes on shamanic journeys to bring back power objects given to the shaman or taken from the spirit world and put into the nganga. Quite unorthodox when compared to traditional palo. But I do use firmas although the mechanics of how they work or are suppose to is a mystery to me.

I hope you're not offended by my practice, but I hope to learn more about Palo from anyone that is willing to teach. As my experience grows, i'll perhaps go deeper into Palo Mayombe, but the resources to study from are scarce to say the least. I"ve had a rompimiento done on me by a palero and have seen many here where I live. I usually ask a lot of questions, but the answers I get lead me to believe that there is some kind of code of secrecy among paleros, particularly geared towards those who have not been initiated.

Anyway, I wish you good luck on this forum. Hopefully you'll be respected as you should be.

One other thing: Do you consider yourself a shaman?

Yours in the struggle,
--Teopiltzin


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:41 am
Posts: 13
Teopitzin (what does the name mean, btw?), whether I am respected here or not makes little difference to me. What is really known about Palo, outside initiate circles, can be summarised in just a few lines so whatever outsiders think Palo is, is of little consequence. Yes, we are sworn to secrecy and we do not discuss ritual, etc, with non-initiates.

I will say that Palo is a system of ancestral and nature veneration; that it can be used to heal and to hurt (as most things can) and that it is only as good or as evil as the person practicing it. I'll also add that there are many 'paleros' in the US and in Europe who are nothing but cowboys pretending to practice a tradition that they do not understand in order to profit from the weak and the innocent. There are very few real paleros around and they usually keep a low profile.

I have not heard of your tradition but it doesn't offend me in the least. It is also true that a caldero (cauldron) is not specific to Palo. Such containers have been used spiritually for hundreds of years in cultures spanning the middle East, Europe and Africa. However, Palo forces can only be worked with once the requisite initiations have taken place and the person joins an established ancestral line by becoming a member of a munanso (Palo house).

As for shamanism, if one accepts the strict view defining the term as an extension of Tengriism that must include ecstatic travel, then Paleros are not shamans as there is no conscious projection or spirit travel in Palo. However, as I stated before, I have had such experiences all my life, before and after initiation into Palo, and they are intrinsic to me, not to any religion.

Answering your question further, I may not be a shamanic practitioner but I have enjoyed ecstatic travel, both voluntarily, and in the past, involuntarily.I also work with spirit forces, have been caused to shake to the point of loss of consciousness by them in the past, have been 'pulled' from my physical body a number of times, I perform cleaning ceremonies, have visions, hear discarnate voices and have a connection to something so spiritually sublime that it is quite indescribable as anything other than an emanation from God.

I'd also be interested to hear what others here think a Palero is and why they do not respect Palo as a tradition.

Your friend,
Ventana.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:17 pm
Posts: 95
My name means "he who brings a message" in Nahuatl. Anyway, i've been thinking about what you just wrote and what intrigues me is how much you are willing to tell about your practice. Are there some things you can talk about? What kind of things would that be. I'm interested in anything you would have to say about Palo. To what extent could you teach about it, if at all?

I'm struggling right now with one aspect of Palo which is the firmas. Do you have your own firma, or is that also a secret. I've been working out of book which I hear is not recommended, but that's the only place any information on palo is readily available. I have a book called "Mas Alla de Cuba" that explains a little bit about the religion, but it also has a huge list of images pertaining to firmas. I've tried using a few out of the book, but I'm not sure if i'm using them right. Also, can you disclose any information as to what initiation procedures Paleros work through? I know about Rayamiento and the small cuts the Tata or Padrino makes on the uninitiated in order to initiate. But that's about all I could figure on my own.

One more thing: do you practice palo cristiano or palo judio?

Anyway, very interesting stuff. Keep up the good work.

Yours,
--Teopiltzin


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:41 am
Posts: 13
There is no such thing as Palo Cristiano or Judio. The terms reflect working 'good' or 'bad' sorcery (Judio as in Jewish implying not of the officially accepted Cuban Catholic faith). However, there is no Catholicism or Judaism in Palo lore. There are Palo Ramas (e.g. SCBV) that mix-in a lot of other stuff, like espiritismo, freemasonry, etc, but they are relatively recent 'extensions' of Palo Monte and I've not been too impressed with a few of the people I have met who work such systems.

'Good' and 'Bad' are such elusive terms, for what is good for one person may well be very bad for another standing right next to him. I simply work whatever I need to work whenever I need to work it; always careful to fully understand the situation in hand and not create any undesired effects. Also, unlike some paleros, I do believe in karma and hence am a responsible worker.

Firmas (patipembas) are a difficult topic. They were originally obtained direct from entities that mounted mediums and scratched their marks into the soil. Hence, they are spirit/force signatures. And that still happens in some places, like certain Umbanda and Kimbanda houses in Brazil and I presume in some parts of Cuba too, but the truth is that a lot of paleros have no clue what their firmas mean. They receive them from a house elder with passed-down instructions of where / when to use them and very little else. I have received three personal, secret, firmas from 3 different elders and I hardly use any of them. I have also had a vision of another 2 firmas (during an altered state) and those I have used with good results, presumably because they came direct to me from the spirit world and I understand what they mean.

My honest advice is do not use anything that you do not understand. And working from 'Palo' books is a complete waste of time as most of what is out there is pure nonsense.

Discussion on initiation, etc, with non-initiates is not permitted. The ceremonies are secret and should stay that way in order to dissuade fraudsters from copying them verbatim and ruining some unsuspecting seeker's life. Even so, too much of that happens already.

Suffice it to say that a lot takes place during an initiation and that a Tata, Yaya (female initiate) and a number of other initiated house members have to be present.

In order to work Palo, you must seek initiation into a genuine munanso. There is no other way. You can, however, tune in to a lot of the energies that all animistic traditions work with by simply meditating in isolation at a specific place, e.g. a river, a forest or a cemetery; by making food, tobacco and alcohol offerings in such places and by lighting candles and calling on your personal ancestors at home.

If you are working your own system, you probably have a few spirit guides or ancestors influencing you already so your best bet is to tune into them.
Also, consider the use of entheogens, which though not employed in Palo, are usually a cornerstone of self-discovery and subsequent shamanic work.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:57 pm
Posts: 6
NV, what was the time and what was your doing when you saw all this?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:41 am
Posts: 13
Roughly 3pm on a wet March afternoon, reading a book, sitting in my favourite armchair, in my living room, alone. Completely awake, I should add. The beetle actually appeared not 6 ft away from me while I had my eyes wide open.
I lost consciousness and traveled when it sank into the spiral.

Havent a clue what it means.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Spiral and beetle..
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:17 pm
Posts: 95
One other thing. How does one manage to strike a contract or deal with potential nfumbe.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Spiral and beetle..
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:41 am
Posts: 13
One first becomes a Palo Tata :lol:

An nfumbe is not a 'normal' spirit.. they can only be worked with by those who have had the requisite ceremonies done.


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

Board index » General Discussion » Shamanic Journeys


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron

phpBB SEO