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 Post subject: How can I tell if the experience was genuine?
 Post Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:32 am 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 3:10 am
Posts: 2
Hello all,
I am quite new to shamanism, but i've been drawn towards the occult for a very long time and i've done a bit of meditation the last couple of years. Nothing very serious though.

Yesterday, as i was reading 'The way of the shaman' by Michael Harner, learning about power animals a dream from my childhood popped into my head. It was one of the most real and enjoyable dreams i've ever had: i was a wolf-man and i was running very fast on two legs, jumping over cars, feeling the wind as i wooshed by. I could feel i was very strong and the fact that i could jump so far and high and run so fast was exhilarating. Also a small bat was accompanying me, flying about 3 feet above me as i ran. I didn't pay much attention to the dream at that moment, but the joyous feeling of running and jumping stuck with me.
Anyway, yesterday i tried to go on my first shamanic journeys. I tried to journey first in the afternoon, and again at night as i went to sleep.
The first time i went from an entrance hole through a very short tunnel into a cave which led out to a lake with a rocky beach, and beyond the beach a thick forest. Everything was kind of confusing, and i kept alternating between the entrace hole, the cave, the lake and back again. Even now i can't tell if i was willingly immagining the lake or if it popped into my imagination. At one time i entered the forest and as the drum seemed to start to sound like a frog i found a frog near a small puddle in the forest, picked it up then let it go. It was hard to stay in one place for long. I exited through the hole again after exploring the beach a bit more.
At night the experience was richer. I went back through the same entrance hole to the lake but i kept going in and out. One moment i was imagining the lake and forest, the next i was right outside the entrance hole again. This happened repeteadly. Suddenly, as i was at the entrance to the hole again i think i saw a black wolf standing on all fours beside me. I am saying 'i think' because the experience was quite confusing, as it was earlier in the afternoon. I couldn't tell the exact shape, size or colour as all was quite blurry but i was surprised the wolf was outside of the hole and not inside(where i expected to find any animal). As i went through the hole again 4 much smaller wolves were with me. Again, this was all very hazy and out of focus. When i came out of the cave to the lake my heart throbbed a bit to see a kind of bear-wolf creature standing above the cave exit. He was much bigger, brownish and standing on 2 feet. I felt he was a wolf, at one time it seemed like it was a she. As always i was alternating between the entrance of the hole and the lake. And the wolf never looked the same. He was both outside the entrance hole and inside, at the lake. At one time i was a wolf myself and i was running with the wolf on a grassy part of the ground between the beach and the forest. We were friends. We aggreed to go into the forest as i fell asleep.

The thing that puzzles me is: how can i know if the experience was genuine? I was trying to keep my head clear of all thoughts to let things appear by themselves in my imagination, but sometimes i remembered what i had read earlier that day, and the dream from my childhood. Was the experience genuine or was my subconscious reproducing and combining things from memory because i wanted to go on a shamanic journey? Was the wolf real or did i imagine a wolf beacause earlier that day i remembered my dream as a child ?
I hope my long first post was at least partly coherent, i am having trouble putting into words things that seemed unclear even in images.


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 Post subject: Re: How can I tell if the experience was genuine?
 Post Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 5:35 am 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 9:04 pm
Posts: 7
Hi, hope you're enjoying your first journeying steps. I think most people will agree that the first stumbling block we come across is the self questioning and the struggle with self doubt. I don't know if this helps (we're all individual and what helps one person won't necessarily help another) but I try to think of the imagination not as something that isn't real, but as a car, if you like, that transports you to the 'other reality' and an interpreter of what you 'see' there. We need our imagination or we wouldn't be able to make sense of the 'signals' or 'frequencies' that we enter when we journey to the 'other world'. So in a way, the 'other world' can be seen as the world of our 'imagination' which is just as real, and relevant to us, as our other 'physical' reality. The reason we find this so hard to accept is that since we were born, our parents/grown ups drummed it into us (with the best of intention) that we were 'imagining things' and 'it isn't real'. But with practice you'll find your journeys become clearer, the 'other world' landscape will become more familiar and you'll be able to explore it a step at a time at a pace that suits you. Carry on with your meditation if you can, especially the silent meditation, as this will clear your mind and allow you to be more receptive to the images and messages of the 'other world'. And if you can start to take notes afterwards of your journey while it's fresh in your mind, on looking back you'll be surprised at what you've 'picked up' and how it applies in your daily life. Hope this helps.


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 Post subject: Re: How can I tell if the experience was genuine?
 Post Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 7:24 am 
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 3:10 am
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Thank you so much for your reply!

What you said really struck a cord with me. It helped me realise once more that more important than knowing the 'road' i am on is the right one is trusting that everything is in it's right place and that this road is as good as any. And i am on this road because i am supposed to be here.
Thank you for reminding me to stop doubting and judging, i find this willingness to accept things as they are one of the hardest things i've ever done spiritually. But i am trying.


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 Post subject: Re: How can I tell if the experience was genuine?
 Post Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 1:33 pm
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I think that most people who come to Shamanic Practice experience self doubt when the begin to journey. Especially when they have not learned to completely quiet their minds thoughts.

As time goes on, the journeying process becomes easier and more fluid. You will begin to realize that these experiences are not easily fabricated or imagined. Things will begin to happen that will also make you realize that your mind is not making them up.

Everyone has differing experiences and visions.

Personally, after some time I began to find that I could journey without a drum or rattles. I could just close my eyes and alter my state of reality. In fact, sometimes I enter the altered realities without intention. It is like learning to play a musical instrument. In the beginning, your struggle, but as time goes on the skill becomes a part of you.

When I first began journeying, I often asked my self and my spirit teachers if what I was experiencing was real. A master who came to me in the upper worlds answered me rhetorically and asked if it really mattered. The teacher said that if I was experiencing something, and I was learning from that experience did it really matter.

Since that time, I have learned to trust in what I experience. It is real to me and that is my truth.


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 Post subject: Re: How can I tell if the experience was genuine?
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:09 am
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Alienescu wrote:
The thing that puzzles me is: how can i know if the experience was genuine? I was trying to keep my head clear of all thoughts to let things appear by themselves in my imagination, but sometimes i remembered what i had read earlier that day, and the dream from my childhood. Was the experience genuine or was my subconscious reproducing and combining things from memory because i wanted to go on a shamanic journey? Was the wolf real or did i imagine a wolf beacause earlier that day i remembered my dream as a child ?
I hope my long first post was at least partly coherent, i am having trouble putting into words things that seemed unclear even in images.


for the sake of simplicity lets assume that everyone lives in 3planes simultaneously in the physical world. the first plane being thought, the second plane being emotion, and the 3rd plane being ego. what the majority define as reality really isnt, just as what the majority of people define as dream isnt either. that is because both the physical world and the dream world are being perceived through the veil of emotion and thought. when you learn to see how these two planes (emotion/thought) define your reality, you will see how both of these planes define your ego, then you will truly live in the physical world and you will be able to journey fully lucid in the dream world. then you will not have to ask if your experiences in either physical or dream realm are genuine you will know that they are.


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