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 Post subject: help me learn this.
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:46 pm 
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I used to fall into lucid dreams where I did travelling but have not for years. I also never could learn how to travel on the drum but can feel my energy changes and I can go into a slight trance when using a drum or rattle. I cant get anywhere with this.

can anyone teach me a way to do this , not the core shamanism as harner describes. I cant get that to work in anyway it seems. I think something like traveling on a smoke from a fire or some other way would be more easy for me but I cant do this for some reason.

is it a block I do or am I doing something wrong . I need to learn how to control these things so they happen on my will and not just happen . I never met a guide on these travels by the way. once I had a couple of spirits brought with me home that came for some time to visit me at day time and I could feel them there . but I cant learn how to travel anywhere being awake and I cant learn to induce the lucid dreams for some reason.

can anyone help me learn this ?

thanks.,


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 Post subject: Re: help me learn this.
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:30 am 
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people usually have difficulty going into trance for two reasons, either they find themselves going into it and they pull themselves out because of being afraid or they cannot focus their minds on one thing long enough to allow the drum, rattle to do its work. the first is easy to fix, all you do is keep going into trance until you become comfortable and allow yourself to fall into the experience. the second however can be a pain in the ass because many people just dont know how or even want to focus their attention on one thing, feeling that the small things of life are more important then learning to trance.


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 Post subject: Re: help me learn this.
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:27 pm 
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thanks.

actually its not a problem going into a trance. but I talked with someone that does teach core shamanism that made me aware of a few things I was doing wrong.

one thing is that I try look for my guides and sort of loose focus because I am too busy looking for the guides.

the other thing is that I have not found a good hole or a good place to travel from yet. nothing feels right yet.

when I enter trances I can feel the energy sort of changing. it feels like it spins around a single time and I am in a trance but then I cant use it for much after that. if I keep drumming and just let my mind wander at some point something random will happen. nothing I can control. however I can sometimes feel my spirit guides coming and enter my body sometimes but then I am unable to travel even though I can feel its like I am able to travel out of my body if given the right circumstances. I drum alone and not use a tape or anything. its one more problem because I have to concentrate on the drumming.

when I allow my spirit guide to help me drum then I can feel its like I am moving a part of me around the body. but not able to go anywhere. maybe some more work on it and I can learn to do this but its been very very hard to find a place to start from.

could a lake or a plant to climb on or smoke to travel upwards on be used instead of a hole instead ?


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 Post subject: Re: help me learn this.
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:13 pm
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If you are searching for your 'hole', try following your power animal to it. A hole can be anything really, like you said, lake, tree, root of a plant... you name it.


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 Post subject: Re: help me learn this.
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:09 am 
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myusername wrote:
could a lake or a plant to climb on or smoke to travel upwards on be used instead of a hole instead ?


I don't think up would work if you were trying to journey to the Lower World. I kind of think that down is part of it ... and that the difficulty is all part and parcel of developing the skill in journeying.

I also have a HARD time with the visualization - I get caught up in analyzing the details ... how does this move from here to there? How do I travel from point a to point b? I tend to want to plod along and will find myself trying (and failing) to visualize and experience every flipping step as if I was walking it in real life ... and then I get so bogged down trying to add in all the details and logic and blah blah blah that I just don't progress.

But you *could* use a plant or smoke ... just travel it down instead of up. Plants, you can enter them and travel down through the roots, trees - same thing, or maybe a hollow tree or a hole in the tree. Maybe a crack between two boulders gets bigger and expands when you examine it closely, maybe you follow a river down a hill and through mists. Or maybe you have to dive to find it ... maybe the smoke floats down.


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 Post subject: Re: help me learn this.
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:23 am 
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I once used smoke and it seemed to work. the problem I think is that I have no real spot in nature and my mind keeps wandering in search for a suitable spot.

someone told me I had to wait until my poweranimal comes along and guide me. the problem was that I been trying to find the poweranimal and not let it find me.

I have to work on it before I figure more out.


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 Post subject: Re: help me learn this.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:53 pm 
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myusername wrote:
can anyone teach me a way to do this , not the core shamanism as harner describes. I cant get that to work in anyway it seems. I think something like traveling on a smoke from a fire or some other way would be more easy for me but I cant do this for some reason.

these kind of things dont just happen, it takes alot of practice, time and patience and the ability to continue working at it even if your not seeing results. im not quite sure what people are expecting, do you think that if you set things up a certain way that your just going to start having journeys? often times a journey consists of dancing to the point of total exhausation and fainting in mid-dance, or drumming and rattling for so long that you just fall right over from doing it for so long, having little flashes of images while your drumming, dancing isnt a journey thats just the prelude to the journey.


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 Post subject: Re: help me learn this.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:58 pm 
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I'm always in a state of half-trance, but I don't leave this world, so that's not gonna help you.


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 Post subject: Re: help me learn this.
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:51 am 
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myusername wrote:

someone told me I had to wait until my poweranimal comes along and guide me.


Yes, this is a good way.


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 Post subject: Re: help me learn this.
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:19 am 
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resonantD wrote:
I'm always in a state of half-trance, but I don't leave this world, so that's not gonna help you.

if what you stated is true then all you need to do is change the way you percieve the world around you, and your body will follow :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: help me learn this.
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:51 pm 
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I'd say stop trying so hard. Just let whatever happens happen, even if that's nothing, even if it's something you're not expecting, even if it's exactly what you expect.

Your "monkey brain" is surprisingly powerful and controlling. Let it focus on the drumming-- its harmonics or its rhythm or simply making it happen. Let your monkey brain focus on your breathing too. So while it's distracted making the drumming happen and making you breathe, the rest of you can journey.


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 Post subject: Re: help me learn this.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:54 pm 
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RiverLight wrote:
I'd say stop trying so hard. Just let whatever happens happen, even if that's nothing, even if it's something you're not expecting, even if it's exactly what you expect.

Your "monkey brain" is surprisingly powerful and controlling. Let it focus on the drumming-- its harmonics or its rhythm or simply making it happen. Let your monkey brain focus on your breathing too. So while it's distracted making the drumming happen and making you breathe, the rest of you can journey.

this made me laugh, when i started going to a buddhist temple i would regularly go to the zen meditation services. an old man their would always tell me after class that my zen is good but i gotta get rid of the monkey mind then he would lightly tap me on the head lol.


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