Can you guys tell me the relationships you know, how essential, or unessential they are?

personally, I don't use them. My imagination is wild enough. And with the work that I do, it is not wise to be in the NOR uncontrolled.

In world-wide shamanic cultures approximately two thirds of them use entheogenic substances to shamanize. Here, where I live, the amanita muscaria besides atropa and various kinds of datura, besides cannabis, were used to induce hours-lasting trance-states.

It is not a question of imagination but of altered states of perception, maintained over a prolonged time - from half an hour to more then twelve hours or even longer.

Today this knowledge is slowly recovered because of illegality of most of those entheogens. Part of me says: Good, that they are prohibited, the other part of me is not that lucky with this situation.

Yours,

Apu Kuntur

I think it's different for everyone. I can only speak for myself, but hallucinogenic mushrooms have greatly helped me on my journey, as has cannabis. YMMV.

It is not my intent to make light of this topic. I have just seen too much misuse of the medicine plants by people who use them for "fun" without knowledge of the true purpose of the plants.

Although I do not use them myself, I certainly understand and respect those who do, and can honor the process.

You should remember they were called "teacher plants" in the beginning. They show you another perspective. Like any lesson, you are to outgrow your teacher and move on your own to be able to do the things you were taught.

"Drugs" are a substance that alters the physical and mental capacities, i.e. beer, tobacco, coffee and so on. I think its odd that people will look differently at people's mixtures. I know one old seer that does his readings in the morning with his coffee and smokes and another one that gets accurate readings with her red wine and cocaine. I had an aunt that would tell future things that we were going to read in the paper after she ate too much sugar.

What's your drug?

my drug.... well my most beloved drug, cannabis. I haven't found much help from it with shamanic journeys, oftentime it becomes distracting to the journey. I have experimented with DXM, and mushrooms. Both highly enjoyable, but I have not tried to journey with them.

teacher plants and plant medicine= food for the soul
unfortunately our ruling establishment doesn't want us to understand who we really are and banned sale and use of entheogens where ever they can and could......
they want to keep us in the dark about our true potentials
they want to keep us in fear to sell us their solutions to the problems they themselves have created
long live the foods of the gods! shamanic teachings the wisdom to be had with plant teachers and medicines
i went to peru to learn a bit first hand about ayahuasca and would love to be able to continue working with it but i live in the states where it is illegal.......
it's a shame we are not allowed to explore and experience the plant medicines and against our natural rights to prohibit us from a real education and right to explore our own psyches because a diabolical ruling elite wants to control our minds and not let us explore our own via plant teachers or other entheogenic substances.......personally i think lsd is the best invention since sliced bread
and could do wonders for many with spiritual ailments like depression addictions and other confusions.......

Tobacco, sacred once, now kills
where Native spirits roamed the hills

IN MY TWENTY years of studying and teaching Shamanism I have never needed nor used any drugs. The journeying and visioning, the receipt of messages and the connection is so powerful when not under any influence, then the assistance from the spirits can truly be heard and implemented. It is my observation that we are evolving differently as the new human beings and can facilitate this (as each of us accesses the inner shaman through clarity, open heart, deep connection and listening).

I understand that in the right place in the right moment it has been and may still be appropriate, but in the UK (for example) Ayahuasca has become 'trendy' or fashionable, and its a thing young people are adding to their list of 'have you tried...' latest adventures or experiences. Sadly I have had to perform healings on several very frightened and lost souls who couldn't reground themselves in reality after an encounter with Ayahuasca (and increasing numbers who are becoming addicted). These are people who had no idea what they were doing, may have had little or no shamanic training and were led by people who were untrained and unconnected. The spirit of the vine knows what she is doing and where she belongs.

It is my believe that the spirit of the plant (as with tobacco) will kick back at those who use it recreationally rather than ceremonially and in its native habitat. Ayahuasca belongs in the Amazon, not in a London apartment! tobacco belongs in the sacred pipe ceremony, not as a profit tool for the tobacco industry.

In truth
Owlawake

entheogenic plants can be found all over the globe......it's true ayahuasca is of the amazon and south american culture naturally but i still see no reason not to partake in an ayahuasca ceremony in the uk or anywhere else so long as it is being done with respect responsibility and reverence
it's not a party drug by any means
amanita mushrooms don't grow locally where i am at but i see nothing wrong with indulging in them on rare occasion either
personally i appreciate all kinds of journeying methods with or without entheogens however entheogens can take me places none other can in my opinion

A man needs to be VERY desperate to use amanita muscarita, becaus of it's side effects, hope people are aware of those. At old times it was cleansed so, that one person ate amanita quite much, suffered the side effects and other "party members" drank his urine. So good luck with amanita. The effective substance, muscarin, is water-soluble. So, well dried amanitas can be eaten without any effects or health problems, said some article about mushrooms used in Russia for food.

Hi everyone,
Drugs are necessary in the shamanic journey. Drugs are produced by our own brain, to enjoy life, to protect us, they are called natural drugs.

Drugs are used in medicine to help our body recover from disease and death, legal drugs. Other drugs are called illegal. Every drug is different but each person has it's favourite drug, so to speak.

Some need very powerful drug like amanita or ayashuasca, others need less powerful drugs, some called illegal like marihuana, some legal call alcool.

Drugs are necessary to elevate the spirit in us, to understand the world both visible and invisible.

E.W.Aweel[code][/code]

i've used amanita they are interesting friends
i don't ask them often to join me in my quests but every now and then when i do indulge......i find they have just what i need at the moment......

I've had a little vodka tonight while listening to music and listening to someone speak to me about my flaws and i've entered a very spiritual state... i feel connected with everything and i've realised that my personal problems do not matter in the slightest. I have been blind and i have seen the light which i'll probably forget later... before tonight i would have said that if i needed a drug to feel and experience things that i was not doing it properly...

I still retain this opinion but this has opened up a new and interesting perspective to me, even though it has only happened by chance i am glad that it has happened i won't try to do this again and i wasn't trying to do anything in the first place... i just felt like some vodka and all this happened.


Peace, love and harmony to all of you and i hope you find your path in this vast hedge-maze we call life

Yup, Vodka works a treat if you know how to work with it .. just don't take it too far . .