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Should shamanic healing be free?
Would you pay for shamanic healing? 74%  74%  [ 43 ]
Should it be up to the client to decide how much to pay for shamanic healing? 26%  26%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 58
 
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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:50 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:46 pm
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i used to barter and then moved to donations before setting a fee along with a specific number of required sessions. I think what helped me to make the transition and get over the "you shouldn't charge for spiritual healing/work" changed when i encountered a woman on welfare that needed healing but allegedly could not pay. Long story short - remember commenting on a small diamond heart necklace that she had around her neck. Turns out that she and her husband had recently returned from a vacation in the islands which is where she had purchased the necklace. Needless to say, i felt a little duped and had a twinge of anger roll through me because my line of work did not provide extra cash for much of anything outside of taking care of my basic survival needs.

Bottom line, folks always manage to come up with the money to get what is important - whether it be a diamond necklace or healing etc. Know in my own life, the money has always come - whether i wanted it or not - meaning that sometimes the lack of money can be used as a real good excuse to bypass doing something we may not really want to do but the spiritual realms want, which i have encountered more than once in my own personal life. Have also found that folks are more seriously committed to doing what needs to be done and following through when their money is on the line, which makes my work much easier.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:55 pm
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Location: ENGLAND OXFORD
Hi everyone, i think shamans should ask for some sort of payment, if i have a client who has little money i ask for a donation of what ever they can give , if they can give an exchange of their time to help me out with some thing i'm happy with this, i would like to do my shamanic work full time or as near as, but i have a conventional job so it's not so important at this stage .But as i have friends who's only work is shamanic work , they need to survive,and if people want a good shaman who is focused and isn't having to fit in people inbetween another work life then we have to charge some thing, :) jeannie x


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 Post subject: Tribal vs. shamanic values
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:40 pm
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Location: Cincinnati, OH USA
All too often the values of Tribal society become entangled with our perspective of what is Shamanism. The consideration of "fee for service" is a perfect example of this. In a traditional tribal setting, there is no monetary exchange. There is a barter economy that works well within a stable community. Add to this that the tribal culture will view money as one more element of the invasive foreign culture that we belong to – so their response to it is understandably negative. However, this value is not a part of shamanism. Shamanism is a phenomenon that exists apart from tribal society, even though it is in this context that the "modern" world first encountered it. It is essential to the understanding of shamanism that we are able to clearly delineate between what is "shamanic" and what is "tribal."

namaste,

Kenn Day
http://www.shamanstouch.com


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 Post subject: Re: Should shamanic healing be offered free?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:49 pm
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Location: Iquitos, Peru
I have been working with shamans in the Amazon for seven years. What I have seen is that shamans do receive payment for their work, but would never refuse to heal someone if they could not pay. When it comes to westerners visiting shamans, 99% of the time they are much wealthier than the shaman and it should not even be a question as to whether they should pay, but when a native is in need of healing, a shaman will often incur the cost him/herself. The days of indigenous people living without money are pretty much a thing of the past, and even indigenous healers need to have money to buy a piece of land on which to live or to send their children to school.


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 Post subject: Re: Should shamanic healing be offered free?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:25 pm
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Location: Lake Orion MI
The ones who are the "real deal" do not charge. They do, however, accept free-will offerings. It doesn't come FROM you. It comes THROUGH you. Isn't the whole of shamanism to learn how to get out of the way? And, the money-changers can't seem to do that can they?


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 Post subject: Re: Should shamanic healing be offered free?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:01 pm 
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This may be a bit off topic ... sorry ... but it seems odd that the January 2011 Shaman Portal newsletter is headlining (for the second time) with an old thread that has discussions dating back to 2007 whose most recent comment is already 9 months old. Is this really such a burning issue in shamanism?


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 Post subject: Re: Should shamanic healing be offered free?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:09 pm 
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The bottom line for me is that I cannot refuse healing when it has been requested, no matter what the means of the person requesting assistance. I usually suggest that it is traditional to offer a gesture of gratitude, which I describe as being on a "sliding scale" from chocolate to whatever they choose. People will offer what they consider to be of value.


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 Post subject: Re: Should shamanic healing be offered free?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:34 pm 
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I first heard this discussion about compensation in 1978, when I became a First Degree Reiki healer. My teacher, Reiki Master Virginia Samdahl, was very clear that there had to be an exchange of energies between the healer and client (normally money, but other forms of energy were acceptable). Let me note that there are many individuals, in the tens of thousands, in the U.S. who are not indigenous nor Native American shamanic practitioners. I went on to be trained by Patricia Hayes to do psychic readings, next became a Second Degree Reiki Healer, then was extensively trained to be a past-life therapist by the Association for Past-Life Research and Therapies, then learned spirit releasement therapy, and in the past five years have studied shamanic techniques with Dr. Alberto Villoldo and The Four Winds Society, became a Reiki Master. I spent tens of thousands of dollars on all of this training, over many years. I continue to learn and study. I believe that the word "shaman" has become mudied, as there is no clear-cut definition. I recently ran across the Peruvian word "chakaruna" and that is what I now call myself in relation to my work (a Chakaruna is, literally, “a bridge person” - the chakaruna helps others to cross from one state of consciousness to other states of consciousness, from the mind to the heart, from the present to the past or to the future; a chakaruna can also help people connect to the spirit world, is able to help free those trapped in false illusions or beliefs, and can move between the upper, middle and lower worlds.) At various times I've had no other occupation except doing this work. As I am not financially independent, I obviously had to charge a fee. The descendants of shamans are doctors, nutritionists, psychotherapists, ministers, etc. Do they work for free? How can you work for free and pay your rent, food, etc.? I provide a sliding scale for payment if a person has very limited means, but, frankly, I've had only a small number of people in that financial position who came to me, so it's been mainly a non-issue. I had one person on wellfare, but she insisted on paying me $20 per 1.5 hour session, which I accepted. I, too have tried giving things free to people (acting classes, for instance) and found people would not stick with it for very long. So, this is a non-issue for me. I charge a reasonable fee, and do not appologize for it. I also believe that a client will take the work more seriously and value it much more, if the client pays for it. That's been my experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Should shamanic healing be offered free?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:13 pm 
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The medicine person in the tribe was always taken care of by the tribe. The tribe supplied his/her shelter and food and various members supplied clothing and jewelery and drums, and other magical implements were often given as gifts. Today, we do not live like that. We need money to pay for these same things. Though magical gifts, like beaded feathers or other honoring gifts are still given to the Shaman, we cannot eat those.

I never turn anybody away for lack of funds, if I have the time still available. I may turn someone away because they are a drain on my energy or my calendar or class is filled but never because they don't have funds.

But as for "should", I'm afraid shamans make their own rules, inside the greater laws of the universe. This is why they are sucessful and can travel into alternative realities to bring back what is need for the tribe or indiviudals. No one needs shoulds in their lives, ask could instead... Blessings, Chris


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 Post subject: Re: Should shamanic healing be offered free?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:16 pm
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Location: NW UK
The spirits who work with me tell me what they want in return, sometimes they want the client to do something, other times they want a specific food offered etc. They also indicate to me whether or not a 'payment' is or should be given for my time. Sometimes yes, sometimes no, sometimes it is an object which they are to find and bring with them or that they should decide on the 'value' of the healing but it is always a part of the whole healing and helps the client in some way.

I can't use the poll, it doesn't offer enough options, or at least the option I would choose.

I doubt there is a black or white answer here (as in any other area of life) but that each situation is different.


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 Post subject: Re: Should shamanic healing be offered free?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:19 am
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Location: Charlottesville, VA
I appreciate everyone's post. I believe this question arises because of a confusion over comparing apples and oranges. In western society--or at least in the United States--we must each make our living based on individual effort. In this setting, if you are going to have the time and energy to do the work of serving the community with your healing gifts, it is necessary to ask for a fee in exchange for your time and effort. While some have the energy and ability to work other kinds of jobs and to do healing part-time, many of us, like myself, do not. Having said that, I do make a living doing many varied things, including university teaching, some consulting, and healing work. It is all of a piece and the income from each is necessary (and right now) barely enough, to enable me to pay for rent, food, phone, utilities and gas.

There was a time when human beings as a whole lived in extended communities and in those environments, the healers, spiritual teachers, and community leaders would have been taken care of by the community. No one was turned away who needed healing or spiritual guidance. And no one who had the gifts of spirit and healing needed to question that if their gifts were valued, the community would make sure they had food, a roof over their head, and other essentials. In a subsistence economy, as well, shamans and medicine people often also farmed and had flocks and other kinds of livelihood. Barter, exchange, spam of farmed products, and gifting would be part of such economies.

Due to the influence of the West, such ways of living have largely been destroyed or seriously impaired, leaving many around the world, and in the U.S. struggling to survive. And leaving economies entirely based on a cash exchange for services. It is the reality we live in and hence, we must find a way to operate in that reality with integrity, good ethics, and caring for our extended communities. Similarly, our communities should value the healing services we offer as much as they value their doctor or car mechanic. A healer who is struggling to make a living--barely--worried about having basic necessities or not able to adequately feed his or her children--is stressed out and would not be able to give 100% to the client, in any case.

Like many of those who posted, I do not turn away someone away in need. And I also know, as many have pointed out, that those who have the means should pay me--and rightfully so. The commitment to give cash--especially if it is a stretch-- to someone assisting in your personal healing, is a powerful signal to the psyche of an individual's commitment to healing.

We also must trust that THIS world we live in and that therefore, the work we do are also part of the Creation. Further, as part of Creator's universe, we should trust that our work and the way we must operate in the economies in which we live in order to live balanced lives are part of that universe. Hence, payment for services rendered--for time and energy invested--are appropriate and blessed by Creator.

Feed yourselves, my friends, so that you may have the energy to feed and serve others.

Rachel Mann
MettaKnowledge for Peace, LLC
www.mettaknowledge.com


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 Post subject: Re: Should shamanic healing be offered free?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:28 pm
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I saw this quote below in the forum and wished to respond.

If we truly believe that the spirits help us and others heal, why do we not also believe that the spirits will materially provide for us?

Spirit sends us clients and by accepting cash, check, credit card for our services, that is how spirit materially provides for us. In this so-called "modern" age, it is not feasible for most people to accept payment in live chickens. You can only barter so many massages. (And do you want a massage from a person that you had to do a healing on?) :D
How many shamanic sessions would I need to provide to one person so that they would barter me a new car? (If they need more than a few sessions, I'm not a very good shaman.) By accepting cash in lieu of chickens, I can charge a reasonable amount to many clients, then go to the car dealer and hand him cash in lieu of chickens, (which he wouldn’t accept anyway), and purchase a new car.


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 Post subject: Re: Should shamanic healing be offered free?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:59 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:25 pm
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Location: Lake Orion MI
greenstone wrote:
The bottom line for me is that I cannot refuse healing when it has been requested, no matter what the means of the person requesting assistance. I usually suggest that it is traditional to offer a gesture of gratitude, which I describe as being on a "sliding scale" from chocolate to whatever they choose. People will offer what they consider to be of value.


However, I'm sure you've heard of shamans who refuse to work on certain people? They know that the disease is to be left alone to do its work in this incarnation.


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 Post subject: Re: Should shamanic healing be offered free?
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:25 pm
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Location: Lake Orion MI
DaleLee3 wrote:
I saw this quote below in the forum and wished to respond.

If we truly believe that the spirits help us and others heal, why do we not also believe that the spirits will materially provide for us?

Spirit sends us clients and by accepting cash, check, credit card for our services, that is how spirit materially provides for us. In this so-called "modern" age, it is not feasible for most people to accept payment in live chickens. You can only barter so many massages. (And do you want a massage from a person that you had to do a healing on?) :D
How many shamanic sessions would I need to provide to one person so that they would barter me a new car? (If they need more than a few sessions, I'm not a very good shaman.) By accepting cash in lieu of chickens, I can charge a reasonable amount to many clients, then go to the car dealer and hand him cash in lieu of chickens, (which he wouldn’t accept anyway), and purchase a new car.


I guess my bottom line is that healing is a gift that the healer is thus obligated to use. It doesn't belong to them. It's other. Most healers know that if they don't use it, they will get sick. Often one who becomes a healer has recovered miraculously from a near death event. This whole "American" healer thingee really bothers me. I've been with many who attend a few "sessions" and then hang out a shingle advertising themselves as psychics and healers.


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 Post subject: Re: Should shamanic healing be offered free?
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:54 am 
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[color=#4040BF]Interesting question - As a healer myself, I have often entertained this question. I truly believe that my healing gifts and skills are to be shared freely and and given with love to those who are in need and I am never comfortable with payment and so I never ask. Sometimes people pay as they can - but I do not expect payment. "What goes around, comes around" as They say. There are too many people out there, working up pseudo healing talents and trying to make a buck. It is my experience that the true healers I have met do not make a profit from their [/color]practice. The Universe looks after those who offer themselves selflessly.


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