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 Post subject: Dealing With Depression from a Shamanic perspective
 Post Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:51 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Ohio
Its been a recurring theme I've seen in most of the woman I've had close relations with. While the exact cases are obviously different the general expression always comes out as this depressive downward spiral of self loathing and hatred.

Even with patience, time, and being as open in communication as possible, I never seem to get any kind of rise in their spirits in a long term perspective. I can have weeks of great progress in their emotional and mental health and stability and then just as quickly one small incident can throw them straight back where they were, digging deeper into their hole. Sometimes its other people in their lives that become the source of their agitation, sometime they even direct it at me as being the source, and just as often they quickly turn around and start blaming themselves and belittling themselves.

I'm curious if other people here have had any success with such people. I've tried introducing my own shamanic perspectives on how to handle their stress and depression, but it is generally overlooked and cast aside. Any suggestions would be helpful, even if I am unable to help the ones I know now but at least to help others I may meet in the future.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:25 pm
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Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Hi,

People heal when they are ready to heal. They need to make a commitment to do so. It doesn't sound like these ladies are ready to turn their lives around.

On another note, it is important for your own healing process, to ask yourself why you continually attract depressed women for friends. We are all reflections of the people who come into our lives. So look deep within yourself and ask how am I depressed? or how am I not choosing to change?

Once you figure this out, and heal your own issues, you will no longer attract depressed women, and you can move on to brighter horizons.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:00 pm
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
Have to say I agree with this. I walked this path myself for many years (hence, my being single into my mid 40's). My own parents never had what could be considered a marriage. My mother was a bandaid; my father, a wound. This was a recurrent theme for her, and one that seemed to weave its way into my own view of relationships.

Finally, I came to understand something. The compassion I learned from observing my mother was a great strength - the very reason, in fact, that I walk this path. That compassion, however carries with it a darker side. Those of us who've thus been gifted often spend all our time working on everyone but ourselves. In fact, sometimes we even feel guilty for working on ourselves. It's the same reason mechanic's cars never start.

Bear Medicine teaches us that in order to be of great benefit to the community, we must occasionally retreat into our dens and do our own work. Only then can we become strong enough to work with others.

To put it another way: if you're in a serious relationship with someone and their life bursts into flames, it's only right that you stick around. The problem occurs when you put on a hat, grab a hose and set out specifically looking for fires to fight.

The upshot of this? I've just gotten engaged to a wonderful (and wonderfully happy) woman I've been seeing for the last year.

The women you keep meeting may be trying to teach you something. . .


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 Post Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:59 pm
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Location: NC
I'm unclear as to whether you are speaking of friends or clients--people with whom you've done some shamanic work. I assume you mean people you are working with as clients. For some people it seems to go more in layers, and until you (and the individual) can really get to that core layer, the real source of the imbalance, the symptoms will persist. As another said, we heal in our ow time. I don't view sliding back as a lack of healing or lack of commitment to healing. Rather, it speaks more about circling that core thing without tapping into what it really is. In truth, no matter what you or any other practitioner does, she won't connect with that wisdom until she is ready to, and the path there is not failure. Not one step of it is. The real concern you seem to be bringing up is how this dynamic is affecting you. Because you seem to find yourself in this position recurrently, are you carrying part of their dynamic for them? Are you taking on some of their life force, that perhaps needs to be compassionately given back to them or released to Source? Perhaps such a ritual for you would release you from that attraction and shift some of those women along.

Another consideration is the collective core wound that many women (and men) carry around the Feminine. This must be addressed as directly as the individual's experience and symptoms. We all are part of that collective, so much offer it healing along with healing our unique stories.

Be well.


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 Post subject: integration
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:29 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:52 am
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Location: S.C.
you know, I don't see 'clients' and there aren't many details on the women you refer to. (not to mention the post is from 2008) Still I can't help but wonder if, in our practices and desires to work with the 'reclamation' of the Feminine, we aren't overlooking one simple inherent piece of the integration process: horomones. I believe that women (myself included) spend much of our earlier lives without a true understanding of horomones and their place in our life, which goes far beyond childbirth/sexuality issues. I have come to see for myself that integrated feminine energy includes the link between horomones and our 'inner visualizations and thoughts'. All pieces of substance translate to an energetic visual/emotion/sound....etc. Horomones included. They are an integral part of 'living' and need to be fully understood and allowed to function in an integrated fashion. Herein lies a problem I've seen: a great battle between recognizing that "I have feelings about very specific things in my life (or myself)...depression, unhappy marriage, unhappy sexuality/job....whatever it is-- something's wrong...." with even the hint of a suggestion at "a horomonal imbalance" .....
Society seems to have fallen under the misguided impression that a horomonal imblance 'invalidates' our emotions and feelings.......which leads to a viscious cycle........if the biological is not addressed with the spiritual, we can drown.
With this in mind, perhaps there is there a horomonal aspect to shamanism that we can investigate more fully here?


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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:59 pm
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Location: NC
Penny, I think what you're saying is very significant. I wrote a piece a while back on neurotransmitters, and how without them in balance we are missing part of our 'antenna' into Self and Source. They are the juice that makes everything function in balance physically, mentally, and emotionally, as well as the chakra system and the ability to process the information coming into the mind from other realms. You are hitting on a vital part of spiritual awareness, cultural ignorance/stupidity, and in this specific case, biogender disregard.

Dream well.


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing With Depression from a Shamanic perspective
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:23 am
Posts: 120
Location: UK
It always saddens me to hear depression "written off" as hormones or chemical imbalances. These beliefs keep so many people stuck from living life to the full and fully achieving their potential. Hormone production is regulated by the pituitary gland which is in turn regulated by the hypothalamus, which is in turn regulated by our thoughts, emotions, conditioning and lifestyle - as also are the neurotransmitter levels in the brain - a proven by a half-century of research now, see..
http://www.lovehealth.org/info/psychoneurobiology.htm

Some good points have already been raised in this discussion, further advice on helping friends and loved ones who are depressed can be found here:
http://www.stress-counselling.co.uk/cou ... ssion7.htm


BetaSwimmer writes: "...the general expression always comes out as this depressive downward spiral of self loathing and hatred."

Indeed this is so often true! I have been working with a couple of depressed women recently and they have voiced some common themes....

DEPRESSIVE BELIEFS/TRAINING

"Michele" wrote to me "As a child. I learnt to put other people before myself."

Many of us have been brought up to approach relationships as "deals" i.e. I will do "XXX" for you on condition that you do "YYY" for me. Usually the "deal" is unspoken [subconscious] and when needs end up unmet, the deal-based/rule-based relating breaks down and unless someone opens the door of self-awareness, authenticity and emotional intelligence skills, the person feels helpless, frustrated and angry and retreats into the "prison of depression".

You can read more of Michele's shamanic healing journey here:
http://www.sunflower-health.com/courses ... meline.htm

THE DOWNWARD SPIRAL OF SELF-HATRED

BetaSwimmer wrote "...the general expression always comes out as this depressive downward spiral of self loathing and hatred."

This is certainly common. I was recently demonstrating an approach to healing called "Laddering" to my shamanic practitioner trainees and worked with a lady trainee. The Laddering technique uncovered a deep recurring fear of "Letting others down" which had recently become absolutely crippling in the form of trying to cope with the overwhelming and often conflicting demands
of other people [in reality actually more about the overwhelming and often conflicting demands she makes on herself!]. We tracked this back to a specific incident [although only one of many] where her mother angrily said to her as a child "YOU HAVE REALLY LET ME DOWN!". In that moment the child both hated herself AND internalised her mother's "psychic dart" statement of "not being good enough".

We were able to revisit the incident in visionary form and heal her inner split [against herself] of self-hatred by inviting in her adult self for a reconciliatory interaction with the depressed ["I am a failure" child. This was accompanied by a massive emotional release, followed by an upsurge of love and joy as 2 parts of herself were finally reunited.

In my experience, what I call "The 6 pillars" (feeding on each other) of the prison/temple of depression are:

* A persistent unsolved problem
* Negative thinking, defeatism;
* Low self-esteem (including false self-esteem i.e. [neurotic] "pride" around an illusory self-image);
* Isolation [especially isolation from our "soul" and "shadow" selves];
* Anger/frustration/aggression turned inwards against self [or projected outwardly as "blaming" & "victimhood"];
* Trying to make life work via immature patterns e.g. dependency, manipulation or "control dramas".

By the way, the Laddering technique is described by psychotherapist Dorothy Rowe, see
http://www.stress-counselling.co.uk/sun ... UCCESS.HTM

Mike
http://www.shamanism.sunflower-health.com


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing With Depression from a Shamanic perspective
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:25 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:50 am
Posts: 44
Location: Pennsylavania
Hi,

What a great set of responses. One of our most important lessons is to pay attention to the mirrors around us. They reflect either what we are or what we are allowing to be around us.

I do something called an environment check. What is my environment showing to me? A fish in a tank of cloudy water can get sick if the water is not cleaned up or changed.

Beta, look at this lesson for yourself first. As to helping these people here are a few suggestions.

1. No amount of talking suggesting or offering is going to help someone who is losing more life-force than you can attempt to feed into them.
2. While the talking and so on can help change has to come from within the person. They have to "value" change. (I wrote this in my book)
3. Most people walk around in a state of sleep. Keep zapping them until they wake some. In the end they still have a choice as many have done so for you. They went back to sleep or other behaviors.
4. What these people seem like is a balloon tied by a string. A breeze blows it then it pulls on the string. Sometimes it pulls the direction you want sometimes the opposite. Either cut the string or ground it. This is a law of vibration. A hermetic maxim actually. If a person is stuck on the law of rhythm, engage the law of vibration to raise their energy. Again life force.
5. Love yourself more. Offer what you can but attempting to fill a person’s bucket that has a hole in it just wastes your life force and the bucket is lucky to stay wet.

We are all healers here, tapped into the source. It makes us feel we have infinite life force to offer such as the source can do. While we do have a lot of life force we need to remember it is easy to empty ourselves if we are not careful.

If these people want to plug into the source then do so. If not they you are interfering with their free will choice.

Hope this helps.

Traveler / Jase


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing With Depression from a Shamanic perspective
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:44 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:23 am
Posts: 120
Location: UK
Thanks Traveler1400! The good advice for BetaSwimmer keeps flooding in!

BetaSwimmer wrote "....in most of the woman I've had close relations with."

The caring and compassionate nature of "Wounded healers" [most of us start from here!] will inevitably attract other wounded people. If we have already healed in ourself the wound that they are suffering from, we are in an excellent position to be a healing influence, facilitator or role model for them. If we have not healed that wound yet, both of us can end up VERY STUCK!

HOW AN ABANDONMENT WOUND CAN KEEP US STUCK!
One of the common wounds that keeps us very stuck to a dysfunctional partner is the ABANDONMENT WOUND. If we have suffered a painful abandonment experience in our early life, we will not only find it very difficult to "move on" ourself from a relationship that is not working, but will also dread the thought of inflicting the pain of "abandonment" on someone that we care about and who we know is wounded and vulnerable. This is how many healers/carers find themselves depressingly stuck fast to a relationship with an alcoholic, drug addict or emotional/physical abuser etc.

Many abandonment wounds begin during the birth process, when a Mother in pain abandons the spiritual/emotional connection to her child. Shamanic Rebirthing practice can be helpful in "over-writing" this old wound with a new and healthy experience of birthing. See:
www.sunflower-health.com/courses/projects/rebirthing.htm


Mike
http://www.shamanism.sunflower-health.com


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing With Depression from a Shamanic perspective
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:50 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Posts: 38
Location: NC
Quote:
It always saddens me to hear depression "written off" as hormones or chemical imbalances.


I'm not sure if you are referring to my post, as I'm in no way "writing off" depression on any level. Depression happens on all levels. There are many ways to work with neurotransmitters that involve reviving them at an energetic basis, such as communicating with them as spiritual entities, themselves, and addressing their base needs. Often when affected at that level, the person sees systemic results. In the end, everything is spiritual. There is no divide.


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing With Depression from a Shamanic perspective
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:20 am
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It will be true that People heal when they are ready to heal.


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing With Depression from a Shamanic perspective
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:23 am
Posts: 120
Location: UK
Skelleyh wrote:
I'm not sure if you are referring to my post

No I wasn't, Skelleyh, I was referring to those health professionals - fortunately diminishing in number since cognitive behavioural therapy became "flavour of the month" for treating depression - who take away sufferer's hopes by simply writing off depression as "due to [incurable] chemical imbalance in the brain" which then leads into symptomatic treatment with chemicals.

Skelleyh wrote:
Depression happens on all levels.

I agree completely, Skelleyh, as both a former sufferer [to the point of not only medication but also hospitalisation] 20 years ago, plus now providing support and healing to depression sufferers.

Skelleyh wrote:
There are many ways to work with neurotransmitters that involve reviving them at an energetic basis

Absolutely. I often combine "Inner Journey" and Shamanic approaches with Bill Redpath's "Trauma Energetics" http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/CHEAL/message/1228
which I find useful at times when image/vision work reaches a "sticking point".

BetaSwimmer wrote:
I never seem to get any kind of rise in their spirits in a long term perspective. I can have weeks of great progress in their emotional and mental health and stability and then just as quickly one small incident can throw them straight back where they were, digging deeper into their hole

This is indeed the great struggle with depressed clients, friends, relatives and work colleagues!

A great insight for me, and a source of great therapeutic understanding and inspiration, has been to realise that what I call the "Death Wish Demon" has been activated as a result of trauma or loss, and gone on to initiate a continuing cycle of self-sabotage, I have written at length about this here:
http://www.stress-counselling.co.uk/counselling/depression.htm
This "Death Wish Demon" can actually appear in archetypal forms in dreams, journeys and even during psychodrama "acting out" of symptoms for emotional release and insight purposes.


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing With Depression from a Shamanic perspective
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:43 am 
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If you keep your energy high,and your connection to spirit strong,you will not get depressed,even when terrible things happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing With Depression from a Shamanic perspective
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:12 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:16 pm
Posts: 260
Location: NW UK
oracledreamhealer wrote:
If you keep your energy high,and your connection to spirit strong,you will not get depressed,even when terrible things happen.


This doesn't feel right, depression can and does hit just about everyone from time to time because its root lies in feelings of confusion and helplessness. Depression is a vital part of our psychological makeup telling us that something needs to change. Even with (especially with!) a strong connection to Spirit and high energy we can still face confusing situations and become depressed, we need to know how that feels sometimes in order to reconsider what we are doing.

To deny that depression is part of life is like trying to avoid pain, there are lots of things you can do to avoid being hurt but sometimes it is out of our control and we need to go through it to understand something.

The problem with depression is that it is rather like a drug, the more we feel depressed, the easier it is to just fall back into it and wallow in it. In that sense, yes, keeping a strong connection and making an effort (raising our energy) helps to bring us out again.


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 Post subject: Re: Dealing With Depression from a Shamanic perspective
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:37 pm
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Already answered in a previous post. Sorry!

BB
Phoenix Dragon-Oak

PS And I deleted the post before reading the last post in the thread... (chuckles) This is beginning of a really great day!


Last edited by DragonOak on Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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